Do you leave your body on 5-MeO-DMT? And on the way down through the bardo?

[thinlizzy1978]

Do people leave their bodies fon 5-MeO-DMT? And during the come down do people experience visions or N,N-DMT like realms? I remember reading Stanislav Grof's report of his 5-MeO-DMT trip and he said how he experienced what Tibetan buddhism(other traditions just call it a different name) calls the the dharmakaya/clear white light and on his way down he experienced bardo visions of past lives and meeting entities I think. Does anyone have personal experience related to this?

Edited December 3, 2019 by thinlizzy1978

[erik8lrl]

It all depends on the person. Some can have out of body experience, but not everyone does. 

[thinlizzy1978]

I have heard that the 5-MeO-DMT breakthrough corresponds to the void. From my understanding the void is a disembodied state where past, present, and future exist simultaneously. In Tibetan buddhism, in the 6 yogas of Naropa, there is a stage called union of illusory body and clear light. This is preceded by yoga of illusory body and then after this attainment of clear light. The union of illusory body and clear light seems to enlightenment when someone retains this state of the Supreme while being able to function in the body in our physical realm. AKA Enlightenment. So their mind literally contains the entire universe, not just on physical plane but on all the subtle planes on up through continuum simultaneously. This is why a truly enlightened being is said to be omniscient 

[Forestluv]

@thinlizzy1978 

54 minutes ago, thinlizzy1978 said:

So their mind literally contains the entire universe

Of what you wrote, this is the closest, ime. Yet I would drop the "their mind" part. There is simply the ISness of entire universe. You are universe. 

The other stuff is contextualized add-ons and unnecessary, imo. Yet as humans we love to create experiences, stories and share them with our fellow humans. Story creation and story telling is beautiful. Yet, immersion/attachment/identification/seeking of stories can also be distracting to the ISness "prior/beneath" the stories. 

Your posts seem oriented toward using psychedelics to access some type of state or destination somewhere out there. Psychedelics can certainly be used for that and it can be quite insightful. Psychedelics can also help us to return to Here and Now. 

[thinlizzy1978]

Well you can frame it being "beyond the mind" and consciousness and a non state state like Nisargadatta does it. He strips it out like on steroids

[Forestluv]

8 minutes ago, thinlizzy1978 said:

Well you can frame it being "beyond the mind" and consciousness and a non state state like Nisargadatta does it. He strips it out like on steroids

I wouldn't frame it as "non state" either. Yet "non state" is a realization, relative to "state". Ime, it's an important realization because the mind realizes a contrast to "state". You also seem to be exploring other realizations as well. I would also say the realms you speak of carry a lot of deep insights. 

Notice how difficult it is to discuss. We are both using the term "it", yet there is no "it", yet there is also an "it". This is one of the limits of language. Any word/image we use is not another word/image. For the mind to hold any word/image there must be form. 

You seem to have a lot of curiosity about different realms, meditation and psychedelics. Have you tried psychedelics? If not, are you curious to try it?

[thinlizzy1978]

I have done psychedelics, mostly LSD and mushrooms but I never had the full blown different realm sort of experiences like on mushrooms or N,N-DMT. I seem orientated into having satori/non duality experiences and the satori feature to my LSD trips has only become more prominent from doing meditation. I am curious about the disembodied astral worlds that people speak of. These things are higher orders of samsaric experience but certain traditions like Tibetan buddhism make use of them because you can loosen your attachment/hang ups on the physical plane but going into these other planes. However, they can be huge traps and distraction from following this through to the Ultimate/liberation because these realms can be filled with such light and bliss and far outness.  I am asking about these things but they don't seem to really examined by most people who do psychedelics or it turns into some sort of logic/philosophy thing. And the people who really know these things, yogis/lamas/zen masters/etc will not speak of them openly nor in public. Zen has almost no concern for anything short of the ultimate which differs from the Tibetan tradition which makes use of the visionary realms in the continuum as a means for attaining liberation also

Edited December 3, 2019 by thinlizzy1978

[Forestluv]

@thinlizzy1978 Most of my trips have not gone into the types of realms you have been describing. I've had a few of these astral realm experiences, in particular with Ayahuasca. Also a few trips with past lives themes. 

I think it's an intriguing area to explore. Perhaps try a different psychedelic environment. I think the environment at the Ayahuasca ceremonies helped draw me into other realms - such as the music, singing and collective energy. It seemed to draw in spirits. . . I also became much more sensitive to psychedelics over time. As if I became more open, curious and willing to let go. I also think allowing imagination to flourish and merge with realness is helpful. Last summer, I worked on lucidity and had mild entry into other realms through dreams and awake. For example, by laying under a tree or by a lake for hours - just staring. Or through shamanic breathing. . . .Yet taking something like Aya or DMT would be a springboard.