Is being spiritually talented from birth only way to achieve spiritual success?

[moon777light]

The more i read spiritual books, especially memoirs/autobiographies, the more i sense that all the people who *made it* in the spiritual world (attained realization, lived their life led by synchronocities and intuition) were people who as children had a magical life. As kids they already remember manifesting stuff, being psychic, having paramornmal abilities even siddhis and such. And of course later they attain spiritual insights to an insane magnitude, much deeper than what most surface level esoteric books can offer. Im currently read "If Truth Be Told" which triggered this question

I myself was not particuarly inclined spiritually or had any gifts as a child (the only thing maybe is that i had deep interests in the occult in those early years). 

So i wonder, exactly how much harder is it for people who have no talents/predispositions to this kinda work to attain deep results such as Awakening? Is it a devote every single minute of your life to it type of deal? i heard a person (specifically Dean Radin, author of Real Magic) talk how he meditated daily and rigourously for 40 years & in all those years had only minutes long of mystical experiences

How much does our Karma, Past lives (if there is such a thing) influence our capabilities in the now. I hear of the principle that mastery is only a little bit talent and majority discipline and work but when it comes the work were doing here, it doesnt seem like so. How to strengthen out intuition to avoid going astray and wasting years off the path?

[Nahm]

@moon777light What definitions have you created which we’re working with here, for ‘spiritual talent’ and ‘achieving spiritual success’? It would help the discussion imo. Also, what is your understanding, from the books you mentioned, of how they identify themselves?

[outlandish]

I remember Shinzen Young talking about how he's one of the least spiritually talented person in the world, and yet here he is, very developed and teaching and helping a lot of people out. I think he said that his lack of "spiritual talent" in a way is a strength because it makes him work hard, and he is more acutely aware of the process. 

I'd recommend trying to dig up his words on the topic, it was very insightful and inspiring. Sorry just going on memory here, I'll post it if I find it.

It's more about the growth that you make, rather than your inborn talent.

[moon777light]

@Nahm Realization of Truth, getting Awakended, seeing the Self (capital S) for what it is, not having attachments, being so unified with the divine that you just follow signs given to you. Like wishing for something a boom there it is

@outlandish ohh man i forgot about him haha ok that's a relief phew

I guess  have to put in that impatience was a characteristic that i had since childhood. All i remember my parents and teachers saying is "dont be soo impatient" so when i do stuff now like meditate and it seems like the process is slow, i tend to overreact with the "oh im dooomed!" thinking

[Nahm]

Just now, moon777light said:

Like wishing for something a boom there it is

Could you share an example or two of this? 

[LfcCharlie4]

@moon777light Not at all mate, self-realization is possible for anyone on this path. Nobody is more special if they are enlightened, in fact in Zen they call it the 'Stink of Enlightenment' when someone walks around thinking they are better than people because they are enlightened. 

There's something beyond enlightenment, beyond Non-Duality, after all these are concepts, or pointers to the Absolute  

[moon777light]

for example in the book im reading, the guy is tired of his job and wishes for something more exhilarating, then the very next day hes contacted for an amazing opportunity. Or for example of intuition, he can read the mind of someone, like he already knows what they are goin to say minutes before they say this.

@LfcCharlie4 thanks for the reassurance  i noticed in zen books and literature there is very little talk of these magical powers/siddhis and whatnot, instead its more austere and serious, focusing only on enlightment

i guess i was wondering old soul vs new soul,  old souls are much more predispotioned to awaken, and i wonder if new souls stand a chance haha

[Forestluv]

45 minutes ago, moon777light said:

The more i read spiritual books, especially memoirs/autobiographies, the more i sense that all the people who *made it* in the spiritual world (attained realization, lived their life led by synchronocities and intuition) were people who as children had a magical life. As kids they already remember manifesting stuff, being psychic, having paramornmal abilities even siddhis and such. And of course later they attain spiritual insights to an insane magnitude, much deeper than what most surface level esoteric books can offer. Im currently read "If Truth Be Told" which triggered this question.

Different people are likely to have different pre-dispositions and abilities yet those that have spiritually gifted have not always lived charmed, magical lives. To me, that sounds like a Hollywood movie script. 

Regarding "paranormal" abilities, it does seem that some people are more sensitive to their environment since they were children, yet others can develop it. As well, "paranormal" abilities are just one aspect of reality. Sure, they are sexy - yet that's not "it" - its within "it".

As well, some people are more in tune with certain practices. I went to buddhist/meditation groups for over 20 years and sucked at it. People around me were having mystical experiences within a year or two. I kept thinking there was something wrong with me and I wasn't doing it right. I remember esoteric Dharma talks about the ineffable transcendent nature of no-self. Huh???? They would say things like "When the person drinks the tea, it is not the person drinking the tea". Then the group would smile and nod. Someone else would say "Yes, and the tea drinks the tea". And people would nod approvingly. I'd be like "Can someone please just speak in normal English and tell me what tf this is all about?". 

I just didn't have a pre-disposition for meditation. And I don't have a pre-disposition for Yoga. . .Or Kundalini energy. The closet I got was running solo in nature. That was my strongest resonance but I never explored it spiritually, because it didn't count as a spiritual practice. That's what people told me. . . I actually had many mild mystical experiences while running and dismissed them as "runners high". I would enter a mystical space running in nature, return home to my cushion and sit - hoping for a mystical experience. . . And the first time I took a psychedelic, it was full-on resonance - mystical experiences, insights and the paranormal. Yet other people don't resonate with psychedelics, just like I didn't resonate with "the tea drinks the tea" dharma talk. Perhaps I have predispositons to psychedelics, yet not meditation. Different people resonate differently with reality. 

6 minutes ago, moon777light said:

i guess i was wondering old soul vs new soul,  old souls are much more predispotioned to awaken, and i wonder if new souls stand a chance haha

I was an average kid with no special abilities, yet people told me I was an "old soul" a lot. I didn't even know what that meant and thought it was kinda stupid. Perhaps their souls saw something. Who knows?

 

[erik8lrl]

@moon777light Everybody can become awakened if they choose to. We are all enlightened we are just not aware of it. Let go of doubts and be. Everything is the way they are due to infinite love, enlightened or not. Much love. 

[mandyjw]

Comparison to others is never a game you'll win. It's a difficult topic to consider and avoid doing just that. People and their stories can be really inspiring though. 

10 minutes ago, Serotoninluv said:

I just didn't have a pre-disposition for meditation. And I don't have a pre-disposition for Yoga. . .Or Kundalini energy. The closet I got was running solo in nature. That was my strongest resonance but I never explored it spiritually, because it didn't count as a spiritual practice. That's what people told me. . . I actually had many mild mystical experiences while running and dismissed them as "runners high". I would enter a mystical space running in nature, return home to my cushion and sit - hoping for a mystical experience. . . And the first time I took a psychedelic, it was full-on resonance - mystical experiences, insights and the paranormal. Yet other people don't resonate with psychedelics, just like I didn't resonate with "the tea drinks the tea" dharma talk. Perhaps I have predispositons to psychedelics, yet not meditation. Different people resonate differently with reality. 

People do not appreciate the extent to which running and nature, or more so the combination can alter consciousness. Having been involved with the running community I've been aware that addiction to running is actually a common occurrence because of this lack of understanding.

 

[Forestluv]

10 minutes ago, mandyjw said:

People do not appreciate the extent to which running and nature, or more so the combination can alter consciousness. 

I think it can be a legit "spiritual practice". Imagine having a master spiritual running monk, like the running monks of Mt. Hiei. . . 

[Consilience]

I had very little magic as a child. I was very introverted, had a big imagination, played a lot of video games, played sports, did pretty well in school. Kinda a typical kid in all honesty. But I was a mega atheist and despised all religion even from a very young age. Very anti spiritual. By the time I got to uni, I was a hardcore rationalist that took pleasure in arguing with anyone spiritual. 

But now, because of my exploration with things like weed, psychedelics, and especially learning how to *effectively* meditate, my life has become rather magical. Magic doesn’t manifest anywhere but here. In fact, here and now is the most magical moment of your life  But only as my mind has become still, my concentration sharp, and insights permeate into my being has this magic and intuition blossomed.

I was never talented. I sucked at meditating at first, like horrible. But persistence with meditation, courage to suspend reality with mind altering substances, and a desire to open my heart up has been the energy needed to achieve this “spiritual success” you speak of. Your life is a miracle. This moment is pure magic. Learn to appreciate deeply, feel compassionately, concentrate effectively, and discover indefinitely. You’ll achieve what you seek. 

[mandyjw]

35 minutes ago, Serotoninluv said:

I was an average kid with no special abilities, yet people told me I was an "old soul" a lot. I didn't even know what that meant and thought it was kinda stupid. Perhaps their souls saw something. Who knows?

It means you're very wise for your age. 

2 minutes ago, Serotoninluv said:

I think it can be a legit "spiritual practice". Imagine having a master spiritual running monk, like the running monks of Mt. Hiei. . . 

I'm not sure matching pace can be a major issue.  I think the real key is that we really resonated with it just because it happens to clear the mind and we enjoy it. Because God/Source is love, if a practice can evoke love and clarity of mind together it's golden. Bonus points if you're completely oblivious to the idea that it's a practice and have zero expectations. 

[Consilience]

@Serotoninluv @mandyjw Lifting weights is another way exercise can become spiritual. Doing tempo based compound lifting ie doing a squat very slowly has had a powerful effect of my body awareness and ability to move with grace. Exercise, all forms, can grow to become spiritual in nature  

[Forestluv]

3 minutes ago, Consilience said:

I was a mega atheist and despised all religion even from a very young age. Very anti spiritual. By the time I got to uni, I was a hardcore rationalist that took pleasure in arguing with anyone spiritual. 

But now, because of my exploration with things like weed, psychedelics, and especially learning how to *effectively* meditate, my life has become rather magical. Magic doesn’t manifest anywhere but here. In fact, here and now is the most magical moment of your life  But only as my mind has become still, my concentration sharp, and insights permeate into my being has this magic and intuition blossomed.

I wonder how common this dynamic is. . . . A person may have some underlying predispositions to magic, yet they are conditioned with hardcore atheism and rationalism that blocks/masks the underlying potential. 

[Forestluv]

2 minutes ago, mandyjw said:

I'm not sure matching pace can be a major issue.  I think the real key is that we really resonated with it just because it happens to clear the mind and we enjoy it. Because God/Source is love, if a practice can evoke love and clarity of mind together it's golden. Bonus points if you're completely oblivious to the idea that it's a practice and have zero expectations. 

Great points. 

I love running for the mystical ISness of simply running in nature - with no agenda or goal. . .  Sometimes people ask me why I run. "Do you run to lose weight? To get in shape? To build endurance? Lower cholesterol levels?". . . I found this confusing and funny. It wold be like asking "Why do you breath?". . . Just because that's what I do. . . 

[pink]

l met Jesus Christ at a Jewish seder Sufi dance just last summer in New Mexico: For real!!

Also- if we actually track our life, paranormal magic has never, not been there!! lt is way too easy to dismiss & for light ppl anyway could easily access their core vein of gold. 

We could choose holograms & choose to allow abilities to be recognized. Many light ppl are able to be waking up now. Everybody has a vein of gold. They choose to recognize their value, vein of gold. 

l experience a miracle just last month. lt colors me every day now.

Edited November 25, 2019 by pink
done

[LfcCharlie4]

@moon777light Bro, you can certainly awaken, let's put it like that, 9 months ago I thought I was destined to never awaken and would just struggle with this stuff forever, 

Now I can't begin to describe the drastic change in my existential experience- let's just say it's amzing!

Love 

[pink]

 @moon777light

 

[Nahm]

16 hours ago, moon777light said:

for example in the book im reading, the guy is tired of his job and wishes for something more exhilarating, then the very next day hes contacted for an amazing opportunity. Or for example of intuition, he can read the mind of someone, like he already knows what they are goin to say minutes before they say this.

Thanks, I get were you’re coming from a little more now. Every one truly does create their own reality. So it is not that one ‘becomes a master’, or, ‘attains a level’ and now what they are wanting just ‘shows up’. One just notices this has been the case all along, and begins to discover the value of meditation, and choosing thoughts that feel good. The mindf is, you were born a master of creation. You’re ‘doing it’ right now. You’re so perfectly designed for it, you don’t even realize you’re doing it. 

The important question to consider, when you have thoughts about others being more talented or gifted, is that it is relative. It is all filtered by your perspective. So, how does a thought feel to you about this? Does it feel great, inspiring? Does it feel bad, is one downplaying one’s self in the thinking of it? In any case, what is the value of choosing a thought about what you want, which feels good to you? Immeasurable. 

“Realization of Truth, getting Awakended, seeing the Self (capital S) for what it is, not having attachments, being so unified with the divine that you just follow signs given to you. Like wishing for something a boom there it is”

How much of that do you honestly believe you would need to ‘achieve’ or ‘attain’...to begin noticing that the correlation between what thoughts you are choosing, and what is ‘showing up’? 

My opinion, is you could notice this correlation right now. Take an honest look...are you putting other people on pedal-stools, pretending you are lessor than? You’re not. The Unconditional, is unconditional. 

I’m gonna call this meta-stooling from now on. ???