Social Clues - Sekret Dynamics?

[Lento]

I always sucked at being social, and I didn't care. But now, I am trying to become a successful leader, at least of my own life. And as a leader, one needs to have some superior qualities, such as: confidence, determination, hard-work, strength, skill, integrity, patience, and so on... which I have been working on for quite a while now. Another part of leadership is how all of that will be interpreted by others and how to make the most out of it. Or in other words, the other part of leadership is learning how to communicate your inner self with others effectively (setting the right vibes).

Yesterday, I was talking to a friend about being polite, and I am, generally speaking, a very polite person. She told me that being always polite usually translates as having low self-esteem. I was like duh! How could I not be able to see that before?!

So, I am working on compiling a list of how very little gestures/behaviours get interpreted by other people. I am mainly concerned about the extents of having good virtues, like being very nice and so on, but anything else would be great and appreciated as well.

Here's my list so far: (these equations are not necessarily true, but I noticed myself and others usually view other people through them, mostly unconsciously).

• Too much polite = low self-esteem
• Showing some opposite quality after receiving a feedback = confusing and weird
• Too much attention/care = neediness, low self-esteem
• Too much intelligence = I can act stupid and rely on you to think for me
• Too much patience = I can do all kinds of stupid shit and you will not kick my ass
• Too much workaholic = I can sit back and watch all the work, including my own, getting done
• Too much clear and direct in communication = not interesting, give some room for creativity
• Too much creative = the guy's on cloud nine
• Too much nice on the approach = go away, I want to earn you as much as you want to earn me
• Too much respect = what do they want from me? I am important, I can act like a jerk

So, basically that's the list. I don't think these are universal rules for how every communication gets interpreted, but I believe that it can be useful to be aware of the existence of such things.

I don't know if this communication has given you the vibe of a teacher but I'm honestly posting this with the intention of learning. I would like to hear from you what you think about my list, how you think it can be enhanced, and what you can add to it. And like I mentioned we don't exclusively want examples for the good virtues, or their extents. We also want the neutral, the bad, and everything.

I hope this will be a good thread. Thank you ?

Edited November 21, 2019 by Lento

[Preety_India]

I'm beginning to notice this as well. I have been polite and gracious in my behavior to my close friends and even in relationships. Instead of being rewarded and considered compassionate, I was treated like shit. 

What you perceive as interpretation by other people is highly dependent on the person who you are dealing with. Although this might seem harsh and difficult to agree with, I will say the truth very frankly that people who mistreat you despite your good behavior are garbage. They are not worth your time no matter whatever you think of them. You are not the problem when you are being friendly, kind and helpful. They are the problem for not being decent. 

I admit that I suffer from low self esteem but my polite behavior with the people in my life was not because of attention seeking or low self esteem but genuine decency. 

I would never treat someone badly if they were polite friendly and sweet to me. It's an Abuser's mentality to think that you are weak just because you are being decent Because they are looking to use you, abuse you, dump you so they have to justify their behavior by showing that you deserved it since you have low self esteem. This is not true at all. Nobody deserves to be treated unkind especially when they are being nice. Only a narcissist would think in such a abusive toxic manner. 

I'm personally a witness to narcissistic abuse and coming out of it freshly has given me important perspectives. 

For a good amount of time, I blamed myself for the treatment I was receiving from the narcissistic partner I had. I thought that I was doing something wrong because of which I was being treated bad. This thinking is also a part of low self esteem. It took me quite some time and input from people and my own reflection and processing that finally made me realize that it's not my fault but the person's fault for treating me badly even when I am showing my best behavior. 

I understood after some time that this is what emotional abuse looks like. 

So understand that not everyone thinks the same way when you are being humble and gentle. Only decent people are going to value you and be grateful for your presence. Indecent people will always find a fault even when you are being nice because they are emotionally abusive. 

Now the low self esteem part. If you are continuing to behave politely despite that person's shitty response and not standing up for yourself is a definite indicator that you have low self esteem and greatly increases your chances of getting abused in relationships and friendships. In this case you would need to upgrade your self esteem and learn to draw specific boundaries to let the person know that you will not put up with their emotionally abusive behavior. 

In a nutshell we need to focus on our own flaws and seek guidance to work on them but never ignore the signs people are giving you. Even in the worst circumstances a good person will always be good to you instead of exploiting and abusing you for your weaknesses. In fact they will remind you of your neediness or low self esteem and not stoop low to take advantage of you. 

The healing part. One is to work on the low self esteem. But the other is to learn to read the good and the bad in people. This way you learn to keep abusers and indecent people out and only decent people in your circle. Thus you avoid becoming a victim to someone's bad behavior and spare yourself emotional damage. 

Do not always judge yourself and think that whatever another person does to you is normal code. No its not. This thinking of immediately giving validation to someone's behavior is also a part of codependency and low self esteem. Often we are inclined to think that just because it's social circle that they are right and you are wrong. This is simply because of peer pressure and their bullying ways which you are normalizing in your mind. This is fatal. Validating a sociopath's behavior will set you on the same path towards becoming like them and this is often found in people who seek or fall in bad company. It's never right to emulate bad behavior. It should be identified for what it is and condemned for what it is. 

I will finish with this quote from Krishnamurti 

 

Edited November 21, 2019 by Preety_India

[Nickyy]

@Lento The problem with that there is no one universal way to interpret. That's why it is crucial to develop 2nd tier cognition so that you're able to effectively communicate what you want to say to another by picking up on and resonating with their world view.

So far you're approaching this from an orange perspective. 

If you observe a very green centred person they try to communicate a position with red and it just falls on deaf ears/gets interpreted according to reds level of understanding the world.

To be effective with red , to get your point across, to make sure you are understood, you need to talk in red language.

Observe how this happen on the forum. Someone will talk turquoise with me and it will go straight over my head.

But I wonder about that, because if they were truly turquoise then they would be able to make their point known to me in a way I can hear it.  

A clue for me to spot a fake 2nd tier person is their lack of taking responsibility for being heard, and instead they shift blame onto you for not "understanding" them or "projecting".

They should understand worldviews and should have integrated all of what comes below. So for a 2nd tier person to say "you're not understanding me" shows they are probably only reaching turquoise states on maybe psychedelics without doing the work.

 

 

Edited November 21, 2019 by Nickyy

[Lento]

@Preety_India

Very rich and insightful post! There's a lot to learn from you indeed. Thank you.

I don't disagree with anything you said. In fact, I think your post is enriching to this thread. However, if you're like me, i.e. trying to become a better leader, I would suggest using a different lens for looking at this whole dynamic thing. Instead of just rejecting the dynamics, how about embracing it and making it work for your favour? The reason why, is that we as leaders need to be more realistic. In the real life, we don't only meet the good people, we deal with all kinds of narcissistic, neurotic, controlling, ignorant, selfish, and so on kinds of people. So, I think it's helpful to learn their language as well. What do you think?

@Nickyy

I like the Spiral Dynamics approach and I think it's so much relevant to this topic. I also like viewing it from other perspectives, like more humane "in vitro" perspectives. You made some great points, and I certainly enjoyed reading your post. However, I was hoping to read more about your experiences and how you deal with people of different personalities. Thank you.

Edited November 21, 2019 by Lento

[Nickyy]

29 minutes ago, Lento said:

@Preety_India

Very rich and insightful post! There's a lot to learn from you indeed. Thank you.

I don't disagree with anything you said. In fact, I think your post is enriching to this thread. However, if you're like me, i.e. trying to become a better leader, I would suggest using a different lens for looking at this whole dynamic thing. Instead of just rejecting the dynamics, how about embracing it and making it work for your favour? The reason why, is that we as leaders need to be more realistic. In the real life, we don't only meet the good people, we deal with all kinds of narcissistic, neurotic, controlling, ignorant, selfish, and so on kinds of people. So, I think it's helpful to learn their language as well. What do you think?

@Nickyy

I like the Spiral Dynamics approach and I think it's so much relevant to this topic. I also like viewing it from other perspectives, like more humane "in vitro" perspectives. You made some great points, and I certainly enjoyed reading your post. However, I was hoping to read more about your experiences and how you deal with people of different personalities. Thank you.

Ok, yeah that's very difficult to articulate for me at the moment because away from the theory side of it (forum) I'm more present and responding energetically and intuitively to my environment. From that place I understand that there really is no fixed personality in a person, I just respond without thought. 

If some examples pop up in a more clear moment I will return to your question and answer as clearly as I can 

[Preety_India]

Just now, Lento said:

@Preety_India

Very rich and insightful post! There's a lot to learn from you indeed. Thank you.

I don't disagree with anything you said. In fact, I think your post is enriching to this thread. However, if you're like me, i.e. trying to become a better leader, I would suggest using a different lens for looking at this whole dynamic thing. Instead of just rejecting the dynamics, how about embracing it and making it work for your favour? The reason why, is that we as leaders need to be more realistic. In the real life, we don't only meet the good people, we deal with all kinds of narcissistic, neurotic, controlling, ignorant, selfish, and so on kinds of people. So, I think it's helpful to learn their language as well. What do you think?

@Nickyy

For this you'll need to be total pro. Not necessarily spiritually but in terms of psychological and people dealing skills. This will need gigantic strength and a mountain of experience dealing with all sorts of people. 

What are you trying to hint at here, is someone like a huge investment banker or marketer who has to deal with people 24/7. And who is an expert at handling all personality types. Like a huge building who doesn't get impacted by any form of stress or difficult people. 

Hmm. That's very stressful to be frank. Normal people usually succumb to the stress and give up. 

If there was a neurotic controlling selfish scammy person on this site who is trying to swindle Leo or running riot on here manipulating or abusing people here, what do you think Leo would do? He will ban him. 

Most people just avoid the horrible ones for the sake of safety but marketers have to put up with all sorts of clients even abusive ones. 

Those jobs are hell and you will need to be a pro to get a good night's rest in those jobs. 

They well need intense training but also a great deal of mental fitness which a lot of people out there just aren't born with. 

 

Your area of research from a leader's perspective should be focused on DEALING WITH DIFFICULT PEOPLE AND SITUATIONS LIKE A PRO.... There are lots of books on that. You can read. I can read. But I don't think even after reading I can be that person. Sorry but not my cup of tea. Most people are sensitive. 

That's not everyone can become a wall street banker or CEO. 

But in normal every day life you can still handle difficult people by getting to know their clues and cues and how they react or assume or interpret your verbal as well as non verbal communication. This will need enormous practice and self restraint. But you can always get better at it with time, effort and experience. 

Women generally perform very poor on these variables because they get emotional and can't handle the stress. 

At least in your close circle of family friends relationships you can cut off such people because they can be massive energy vampires. 

But if you have to deal with them as a client, employee, student, manager position I'd say it will need some training to both deal and cope with them 

All I can say is they are a huge stress. So the benefits should always outweigh the risks or hassle by a huge gap or else it's not worth it. 

I mean would you like to deal with an aggressive narcissistic bully boss for merely pennies on the job. It really boils down to that. But if you are getting a huge benefit like a magnificent deal, let's a really cheap big house or a great career opportunity then it's worth taking a risk of dealing with an abusive business partner/head executive /landlord. 

Best wishes on your personal development. 

 

[Lento]

@Preety_India

Yes exactly! That's what I want. I personally don't find it stressful or emotionally difficult to deal with such people. In fact, I enjoy being the puppet master whenever I am. However, that's not often the case. Sometimes, I just don't have a clue for how things work or how I should act. I often find myself disconnected from the situation and it's not something that I want to keep encountering. I'd appreciate it if you could share any videos or books as suggestions. I don't know if it's appropriate to tell you that you're a goldmine of expertise, but you are. And it's a great pleasure for me to share ideas with you. Good luck to you too.

Edited November 21, 2019 by Lento

[Lento]

• Too much of victim mentality among well-developed people = gets too much unnecessary and probably counter-productive care and attention (prime example: Mikael89 here on the forum)

[Lento]

I've been contemplating..

How could I not see it before?! It's all about balance! Aim for balance.