AwakenedSoul444

Strengthen or master the ego to get rid of it?

19 posts in this topic

Think about it, if you master yourself. At first it'll seem like you become a super ego or spiritual ego. But if you achieve mastery of this mind-body system,  you can choose to wipe out the ego instantly. Isnt that a valid path to enlightenment?  Isn't that how it's done in various schools of thought?

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If you look at it long enough its true nature will reveal itself; it's nothing, like everything else.

Edited by aclokay

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36 minutes ago, AwakenedSoul444 said:

Think about it, if you master yourself. At first it'll seem like you become a super ego or spiritual ego. But if you achieve mastery of this mind-body system,  you can choose to wipe out the ego instantly. Isnt that a valid path to enlightenment?  Isn't that how it's done in various schools of thought?

There is only mastering the ego...there is never totally getting rid of it. Claims otherwise are false and give the wrong idea of enlightenment.

If you study the greatest masters, evidence of a personality always still shines through. Its especially obvious if you see how they interact with their followers. Gurus are never short on opinions and they will always defend them.

Master the ego and then use it as a tool.

Edited by Matt8800

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@Matt8800 I disagree, if you master your mind. Eventually you upgrade your system so much that the ego fades away as an outdated programming.

Sadhguru talks about this, in the advanced path to enlightenment that he teaches in India or wherever he is.

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1 hour ago, AwakenedSoul444 said:

@Matt8800 I disagree, if you master your mind. Eventually you upgrade your system so much that the ego fades away as an outdated programming.

Sadhguru talks about this, in the advanced path to enlightenment that he teaches in India or wherever he is.

The ego goes away, because all ego is is identification with thought. Nobody really needs an ego, we need the mind, but not the false, rigid, fixed sense of self that is derived from the mind.

 

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1 hour ago, AwakenedSoul444 said:

@Matt8800 I disagree, if you master your mind. Eventually you upgrade your system so much that the ego fades away as an outdated programming.

Sadhguru talks about this, in the advanced path to enlightenment that he teaches in India or wherever he is.

I'm not saying this insultingly but master your mind, let your ego fade and remember to come back and tell us how it went. 

I get its good to theorise in what might work or not but what your doing is like telling us the best way of climbing Mount everest without you ever climbing it yourself. Not saying it wouldn't work just saying test yourself before trying to convert 

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@Consept It's not just me saying it. It's how the path of enlightenment has been for thousands of years.

What aren't you familiar with mastering the 7 chakras and then reaching the 7th one? (Enlightenment)

Or the eightfold path by the Buddha.

Or in the energy healing community, the ego is just an energetic or karmic distortion and it can be healed.

Also try getting rid of the ego when your ego is weak, you have little money, poor mental health and no job. It might get so bad the ego just dies but that's rare. And disciplined spiritual practice is impossible.

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5 hours ago, AwakenedSoul444 said:

@Matt8800 I disagree, if you master your mind. Eventually you upgrade your system so much that the ego fades away as an outdated programming.

Sadhguru talks about this, in the advanced path to enlightenment that he teaches in India or wherever he is.

@AwakenedSoul444 If you think Sadhguru has no personality, just watch him talk to his followers. Also, he LOVES to tell stories that tell how amazing he is :)

An ego is required to survive. When Ramana wanted a cigarette, who wanted it? Ramana's ego. 

To say that an individual has no ego yet physically and autonomously survives is a misunderstanding of the function of the ego. The ego is a construct of the brain. Enlightened people still have brains.

People say the ego is totally gone but if you investigate this claim, you'll find it is sectarian dogma (not all mystical traditions make this claim) that you have to take on faith. Its more correct to say it is mastered and transcended. There is even disagreement within the many sects of Hinduism. Some state there is an eternal Atman and some say there is not.

Edited by Matt8800

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4 hours ago, Consept said:

I'm not saying this insultingly but master your mind, let your ego fade and remember to come back and tell us how it went. 

I get its good to theorise in what might work or not but what your doing is like telling us the best way of climbing Mount everest without you ever climbing it yourself. Not saying it wouldn't work just saying test yourself before trying to convert 

@Consept I know these things because I passed through the dark night about 3 years ago to equanimity. According to Theravada Buddhism, I had reached the first stage of enlightenment in their four stage model. I passed through the second stage about a year later.

Someone posted a video awhile ago of Peter Ralston yelling and getting frustrated at his followers. Anyone that says he has no ego I would ask what exactly they think an ego is lol.

If someone literally had no ego, they would just shit their pants and wouldnt know when to eat or drink. (Who needs to shit? Who needs to eat/drink?) There are brain injuries where people completely lose their sense of self and they have to be constantly taken care of.

A subject sense of self that is constructed by the brain is still constructed in an awakened person (even awakened people still shit, despite some claims otherwise) but they have absolutely no identification with it. The identification is the issue.

Edited by Matt8800

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@Matt8800 personality doesn't equal ego dude. When your ego is gone the personality is strengthened.

And Jed mckenna was enlightened and he gets pissed off , enlightenment doesn't mean you have no anger . You just use the anger wisely.

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2 hours ago, AwakenedSoul444 said:

@Matt8800 personality doesn't equal ego dude. When your ego is gone the personality is strengthened.

And Jed mckenna was enlightened and he gets pissed off , enlightenment doesn't mean you have no anger . You just use the anger wisely.

@AwakenedSoul444 Ive never heard of your definition of ego before. 

This is the ego I am referring to: https://www.verywellmind.com/what-is-the-ego-2795167

https://www.britannica.com/topic/ego-philosophy-and-psychology

"It is said to be the part that remembers, evaluates, plans, and in other ways is responsive to and acts in the surrounding physical and social world. "

If an enlightened sage has no ego, then his ass doesnt belong to "him". How would he know which ass to wipe? If there is no sense of "self" whatsoever, why is wiping his ass more important or appropriate than wiping the ass of the guy next to him? Of course, I am just assuming that gurus wipe their own ass. Maybe they dont :)

What is your definition of ego, what does it do and what happens when someone does not have the kind of ego, as you define it? 

Edited by Matt8800

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3 hours ago, AwakenedSoul444 said:

@Matt8800 personality doesn't equal ego dude. When your ego is gone the personality is strengthened.

And Jed mckenna was enlightened and he gets pissed off , enlightenment doesn't mean you have no anger . You just use the anger wisely.

The ego can never be "gone" permanently, it can be strengthened/mastered but its always going to be there as a human being. 


"Started from the bottom and I just realized I'm still there since the money and the fame is an illusion" -Drake doing self-inquiry

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@Matt8800 The ego is not the personality, it's the identification with the mind body mechanism. 

Even Leo said when the ego is dead the personality is strengthened,  also shinzen young.

Do you just expect people to become bricks when they're enlightened? 

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4 hours ago, AwakenedSoul444 said:

@Matt8800 The ego is not the personality, it's the identification with the mind body mechanism. 

Even Leo said when the ego is dead the personality is strengthened,  also shinzen young.

Do you just expect people to become bricks when they're enlightened? 

@AwakenedSoul444 Yes, I know they said that many western seekers will believe that. That is the dogma that exists in some non-dual traditions, including the western version of Buddhism and Yoga. Know that not all non-dual, mystical traditions would define enlightenment the same way however so it would be a mistake to assume this is a settled issue in my opinion.

I think it would be a more correct statement to say that when the ego is MASTERED (subjugated to a servant position rather than the master), the personality strengthens. It is the identification that changes. Prior to enlightenment, they think they are their ego. After their enlightenment, they are very aware that they are not their ego. They observe the workings of the ego just like you observe your thoughts in insight meditation. Rather than them identifying with the ego, their awareness is the subject and their ego becomes the object. Just like the natural mechanism that produces thoughts doesnt disappear after enlightenment, neither does the naturally constructed ego. The animal brain does not stop its natural processes. Its all in the identification.

There are stories of Ramana Maharshi temporarily reaching a state, when he was young, in which he dissolved so much of his ego that he didnt eat, drink or shit for himself. He didnt talk either. He had to have people take care of him as if he was a vegetable. That is the only story I have heard of in which I think someone may have actually dissolved their ego. Of course, he brought back some of the aspects of the ego because it needs to be used as a tool to evolve in this incarnation.

There are massive misunderstandings as to what enlightenment is and what it is not, in my opinion.....and in the opinion of many other non-dual traditions that dont share that outlook.

Edited by Matt8800

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On 03/11/2019 at 3:19 PM, Matt8800 said:

the ego ... needs to be used as a tool 

I like this Matt. The ego is a mental device we have evolved for a survival strategy. We don't need to get rid of it, just find the right place for it. Another analogy I like is our clothes; in the morning we get dressed according to the needs of the day, and play our roles in the world, until bedtime again when we strip off to our natural state.   

Edited by silene

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1 hour ago, silene said:

I like this Matt. The ego is a mental device we have evolved for a survival strategy. We don't need to get rid of it, just find the right place for it. Another analogy I like is our clothes; in the morning we get dressed according to the needs of the day, and play our roles in the world, until bedtime again when we strip off to our natural state.   

@silene Exactly. This is the philosophy of Tantra and the Occult. Buddha and Jesus changed the world with their MASSIVE egos as their tool (and servant) but their True Self was the master.

An unhealthy relationship with this important tool is why so many Western spiritual seekers are weak, passive and fearful.  They cant change their lives, let alone the world.

Edited by Matt8800

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First of all: Ask yourself honestly - are you directly conscious of what ego is? Are you sure it even exists? Where is your ego? Show it to me. What you've most likely got is a hodge podge of mental concepts which your labelling ego. Open up to not knowing, realize you know nothing. Even after a direct consciousness, all you have of an insight is a concept to represent it. 

Let's go further and assume that the ego that everyone keeps yapping about is 'real'. (It would also be a good idea to become directly conscious of what 'real' is). Without this 'ego' - you would have never watched leos videos, read a self help book or a spiritual/religious book, you would have never meditated, taken a psychedelic or engaged in any other activity related to awakening. 

Remember this above all else: Nothing you ever hear or read from anyone will ever wake you up. It's all concepts - and concept is an exact 180 from where we want to go. Take all your concepts, beliefs, pet spiritual theories, ideas about enlightenment or 'paths' and burn them all. There is no path. There is no guru, no method and no teacher. 

I'm reminded of a good quote from jed mckenna here: "Sit down. Shut up, and ask yourself what's true until you know". 

Don't try to master something if you don't even grasp what it is yet.

Edited by Sage

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