The danger of spiritual work. Statement about reality is imaginary

[OBEler]

Hello there,

I just want to talk about leos last video. because he gave some very important messages. He quite good adressed all the dangerous points I went through this journey so far.

But here is still one problem I and maybe others have: as a follower who watched every video I got ideologized because of some of his repeated statements like "Reality is imaginary". My subconscious made an beliefe about it and so my worldview changed slowly.

@Leo Gura can you say that this  special statement "Reality is imaginary, litteraly!" is not absolut truth, it is just truth from a certain point of view like you said in this video? So in other words, Reality could also not be imaginary?

I know you already talked in this video indirectly but I really want to be sure to understand this. So is this statement just an oversimplification, overgeneralization, a way to talk about it?

 

[allislove]

> Reality could also not be imaginary?

Reality doesn't need any word. It's enough for Reality to just BE. 

 

[fridjonk]

Reality is imaginary to anything that is being imagined. So relative to any duality, then reality is being imagined. 

[TheAvatarState]

@OBEler You got ideologized because you didn't contemplate it for yourself or become conscious of what was being pointed to. 

No statement can be absolutely true, because all words are dualistic and relative. Even the statement "nonduality is the absolute truth" is a relative, illusionary statement. What it's pointing to happens to not be. Do you understand what I'm saying here?

What is the difference and sameness between "literal" and "imaginary?" 

[OBEler]

@TheAvatarState Of course there is a dimension where everything collapses. Still we can talk in our relative dualistic view about truth as best as we can.

@fridjonk so is there a reality that is not being imagined? 

[TheAvatarState]

2 minutes ago, OBEler said:

Of course there is a dimension where everything collapses. Still we can talk in our relative dualistic view about truth as best as we can

It collapses here. Again, contemplate the sameness and difference of "literal" and "imaginary." You're missing something important that will help answer your question. 

[OBEler]

@TheAvatarState you mean contemplating sameness and difference between "real" and "imaginary"?

"litterally" means in my head taking something by its word. like leo said: " reality is imaginary. take this litteraly!" Like he meant that this is not an oversimplification or some metaphoric statement but thats how it really is. Imaginary!

[TheAvatarState]

44 minutes ago, OBEler said:

@TheAvatarState you mean contemplating sameness and difference between "real" and "imaginary"?

"litterally" means in my head taking something by its word. like leo said: " reality is imaginary. take this litteraly!" Like he meant that this is not an oversimplification or some metaphoric statement but thats how it really is. Imaginary!

Ooohhh sorry, I guess I misunderstood your question. Yes, he literally means reality is imaginary. 

[fridjonk]

1 hour ago, OBEler said:

@fridjonk so is there a reality that is not being imagined? 

@OBEler Honestly i don't know if the infinite "nothingness", "consciousness" is being imagined when it's in it's purest form in the Godhead or if it just IS.

Does God imagine infinite consciousness and the nothingness  ? 

I'd love to know @Leo Gura

This is something I will contemplate on my trip tomorrow. 

Edited October 20, 2019 by fridjonk

[Mu_]

4 hours ago, OBEler said:

Hello there,

I just want to talk about leos last video. because he gave some very important messages. He quite good adressed all the dangerous points I went through this journey so far.

But here is still one problem I and maybe others have: as a follower who watched every video I got ideologized because of some of his repeated statements like "Reality is imaginary". My subconscious made an beliefe about it and so my worldview changed slowly.

@Leo Gura can you say that this  special statement "Reality is imaginary, litteraly!" is not absolut truth, it is just truth from a certain point of view like you said in this video? So in other words, Reality could also not be imaginary?

I know you already talked in this video indirectly but I really want to be sure to understand this. So is this statement just an oversimplification, overgeneralization, a way to talk about it?

 

I’m not sure your intentions but careful asking for a new rule to follow. Is it literally imaginary or just from a certain angle could become a new rule that is made and taken as It. I believe avatar was eluding to something interesting and important. To see something beyond the words.  

By the way I read your question and answers it seems like your still in ‘rule’ life and perception. And it’s fine if you are but what Leo is saying is beyond subtle or obvious.  He uses the words imaginary and real to perhaps help drop the clinging to the mind and certainty of what is generally taken for ‘reality’ but he’s pointing to something that is such a radical shift in possibility that my sense is if I were you I’d just stop thinking how to figure it out and .............

 

 

[fridjonk]

If existence is absolute, which means there is nothing except existence. 

Which would mean all reality is imagined. Since "nothing" is already something.

So does the Godhead imagine itself as some sort of a strange loop  ?

Edited October 20, 2019 by fridjonk

[Leo Gura]

Reality is infinite imagination.

The end.

[OBEler]

@Leo Gura that sounds like for you this is the absolute truth. Or is this just a big oversimplification and you should not take this by word but as a pointer like Mu_ said:

Quote

 

"He uses the words imaginary and real to perhaps help drop the clinging to the mind and certainty of what is generally taken for ‘reality’ "

 

I am confused

 

[Angelite]

@OBEler your whole life in this world will feel like a day or less when you woke up from your death~  

And your perception becomes sharp. 

Edited October 20, 2019 by Angelite

[Forestluv]

@OBEler The mind is conditioned to think/perceive in dualistic opposites such as:

Real vs Imagined

Literal vs Non-literal

A simple example would be the “heads” and “tails” sides of coin. They appear as opposites. Yet they are inter-related and One coin. Someone may say “Heads = Tails”. This helps to reveal that the opposite sides are One. We create the difference between heads and tails. We create the difference between real and imagined. 

Asking “Are you literally saying that heads = tails?” will put a person into the weeds. In the context of a human construct of heads vs tails, there is a difference. Yet in the context of One coin, there is no difference. Adding in the term  literal creates an extra dualistic variable to work through. 

Regarding real vs imagined, a good way to break the duality is to see the inter-connectedness of the two. Have you ever been in a grey area of real and imagined? Perhaps daydreaming or waking up from a dream? Or memories that you weren’t quite sure if you were imagining it or not? How about optical illusions? See if you can see a little bit of imagination in reality and a little bit of reality in imagination. . .

Going from 100% to 99% is a bigger jump than 99% to 1%. Just putting a crack into a duality can allow floodgates to open.

[OBEler]

@Serotoninluv Thank you, for your good examples. So there are just gray zones, you cannot say something is 100 % real but also not say it is 100 % imaginary.  Makes sense

@LeoGury, do you also meant that? Or is it 100 % imaginary for you

 

[Forestluv]

14 minutes ago, OBEler said:

@Serotoninluv Thank you, for your good examples. So there are just gray zones, you cannot say something is 100 % real but also not say it is 100 % imaginary.  Makes sense

Going from 100% to 99% is a big step, yet just a step. Next is to explore between 99% and 1%. The final step is to go from 1% to 0%. Then you have gone from 100% to 0% and will see that Real= Imagination and Imagination = Real. One can now create constructs of differences between Real and Imagine - as well as deconstruct back to Real = Imagine.

The deepest insights are beyond intellect and may appear nonsensical to the intellect. You can only go so far with things making sense cognitively.

A helpful thing is to enter spaces in which you cannot tell the difference between reality and imagination - for example through psychedelics or lucid dreaming. Yet it can get really intense and scary for some minds. 

[Mu_]

2 hours ago, OBEler said:

@Leo Gura that sounds like for you this is the absolute truth. Or is this just a big oversimplification and you should not take this by word but as a pointer like Mu_ said:

I am confused

 

Ok try this thought experiment.  Really dig into what you believe is "real" and really dig into what you believe is "illusion" and why.  Then ask yourself under what guidelines or definitions what makes them that way and if thats actually true, or just true based upon your own beliefs.  Write it down.  And maybe share.

Like is a apple "real"?  Well is it?  It can be held, seen, tasted, thought about, smelled and so on, but does that make it something called "real"?  Most humans would agree its real, but some may not, or an alien may not, or other dimensional beings, so does that mean it is or isnt?  Theres surely "something" there or called or believed to be "apple", right?  Also, "Apple" is 80% water, parital protien, partial carbohydrate and yet we don't call it that, even though its just as much all that, and its also electrons and photons and neutrons and its that as well, but we don't call "apple" that generally...  So is "apple" a word, various degree's of perspective dependent on magnification level, all of them (including perspectives and experiences we can't even imagine)?  Also is "Apple" sensation, and touch and smell, taste and thoughts that arise in relation to it since they are connected to the "Apple" experience....  Which part of these "Apple" descriptions is the real one, or is there even a "real" one, or are they all "real".....?

And what makes something illusion?  Say a belief that life is bad.  Well, you can't touch it, smell, it taste, hold it, but it is "seen", can be pointed to in some degree in experience, but most people would say its not "real", but imagination or just thought.  Its felt and experienced.  And that can be considered a definition by some to be considered "real".  But to others again like before, there might be disagreance to this definition. 

So again, what defines something?  Real, unreal, illusion, Absolute.......

Don't get to confused or distraught though, lifes still happening despite being unable to pinpoint an answer that is absolute to the above questions...

Edited October 20, 2019 by Mu_

[Nahm]

@OBEler Where is a definition, when it is not being imagined? 

[JustThinkingAloud]

The reality is our “imagination” because we interpret it through our senses. It doesn’t necessarily mean that the world around us doesn’t exist. We can sometimes rely on our senses too much and think that the reality is the exact way we “imagine” it or interpret it. Eagle, dog, bat or slug see the reality different way than we do because their senses work different way to us and that’s their “imagination”. I hope this helps.