Michael569

Stage Green clashing with Red and Orange in London

20 posts in this topic

https://metro.co.uk/2019/10/17/angry-commuters-drag-xr-protesters-off-tube-try-glue-10933003/

Extinction Rebellion has received a merciless backlash across London especially in the east. Protesting in East London where mostly low-income , Eastern european & African communities of shift workers and builders commute from, the naive Green boys did not expect the beating they received. These people have mostly zero concern for the environment, they struggle to make ends meet, have to send money overseas to their poor families, they wake up periodically at 5 am to get on their 12 hour shifts. This is how you kill the revolution. 

 


“If you find yourself acting to impress others, or avoiding action out of fear of what they might think, you have left the path.” ― Epictetus

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Im hoping that someone who understands young green people could explain me what was the goal of this "protest"? What on earth can you achieve for the environment by bullying peoole going to work?

Edit: I mean, like if everything went like they planned, what would have happened? What was their expectations, did they feel like it was a long shot or did they think that those people going to work were going to join them in an instant?

 

Edited by Hansu

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21 minutes ago, Hansu said:

Edit: I mean, like if everything went like they planned, what would have happened? What was their expectations, did they feel like it was a long shot or did they think that those people going to work were going to join them in an instant?

the point was to force the UK government to start taking action against climate change such as reducing transport emissions, increasing city tax for people who own vehicles, looking at water supplies, waste disposal, recycling, plastic and basically all the "hot topics". In that aspect I absolutely agree and get it. We need that kind of protest and rebellion. 

But stopping the only means of public transport for people who do NOT own cars and who are too poor to be manipulating the system.....well sends a wrong message and renders this whole movement riddiculous. 


“If you find yourself acting to impress others, or avoiding action out of fear of what they might think, you have left the path.” ― Epictetus

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24 minutes ago, Michael569 said:

the point was to force the UK government to start taking action against climate change such as reducing transport emissions, increasing city tax for people who own vehicles, looking at water supplies, waste disposal, recycling, plastic and basically all the "hot topics". In that aspect I absolutely agree and get it. We need that kind of protest and rebellion. 

But stopping the only means of public transport for people who do NOT own cars and who are too poor to be manipulating the system.....well sends a wrong message and renders this whole movement riddiculous. 

I know what they are protesting for, and I know why their choice of time and place was poor. However, I figured that in their mind they had a good reason for both, so Im trying to understand their perspective on the choice of protest, time and place. Like did they choose protesting as a desperate attempt to drive a cause that is important to them, since they dont have enough political power or social connections to do the same without taking over a train station? Why did they choose a poor residence instead of the one where the London cream lives? In short, what is going on in their mind when they plan and do the protest?

Edited by Hansu

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2 hours ago, Hansu said:

I know what they are protesting for, and I know why their choice of time and place was poor. However, I figured that in their mind they had a good reason for both, so Im trying to understand their perspective on the choice of protest, time and place. Like did they choose protesting as a desperate attempt to drive a cause that is important to them, since they dont have enough political power or social connections to do the same without taking over a train station? Why did they choose a poor residence instead of the one where the London cream lives? In short, what is going on in their mind when they plan and do the protest?

   Main problem with these people is: they haven't watched Leo's videos fully ?

   They didn't pre-mortem their project, in this case a protest, fully. They lacked stage Orange tools and techniques to execute a stage green protest, No wonder the blunder. Also didn't do behavior change, lacked vision, lacked strategy of any kind.

    At least learn some Kung Fu to defend yourself. Jeez.

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@Danioover9000

So they had a grand scale goal in mind, the will to do something and the energy to act on that will but no tools necessary to do anything productive towards the said grand scale goal?

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30 minutes ago, Hansu said:

@Danioover9000

So they had a grand scale goal in mind, the will to do something and the energy to act on that will but no tools necessary to do anything productive towards the said grand scale goal?

   Yes, and more like they had an idea that isn't ambitious enough, and not enough committment to follow through and did not foresee enough possible failures of their actions.

   I wouldn't call what they were doing a goal. I would bet they didn't even do a goal setting on their idea ?

   Moral of the story: think before you act.

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Did the organisation fail? They're getting press for their cause and "Business as usual = death" printed in a newspaper. They are reaching out to more people than before.

I mean there is always room for improvement but I feel like there's crazy amounts of smugness in this thread. An Extinction Rebellion with sloppy understanding of SD is still probably more productive than no Extinction Rebellion at all.

I'm not saying "Let's not critizise anything from an SD point of view", these discussion can be useful, I'm just saying that these kinds of critisisms tend to more often than not be to point out how people who challenge our ways of living are naive, while ignoring how we ourselves are naive for being so ok with business as usual. 

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@Octafish

Can you open their way of thinking to me? Im actually interested to knowing more how these individuals think and come to the conclusion that they need to act the way they act. I admit that me thinking that their mission failed miserably can simply be my own smugness and "Lol I know how they should have acted" way of thinking and Im open to suggestions that contract this, as long as the result is what they planned all along

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@Hansu I'm not too familiar with the exact details of the organisation myself, some reading into the FAQ on their page can maybe clean some things up. (Sadly my schedule is a bit busy today so I don't have too much time to think alot about this at the moment.) https://rebellion.earth/the-truth/faqs/

(Also sorry if I came off too abrasive, I'm just a bit allergic to percived lack of humility in myself so I might judge that a bit too harshly in others at times.)

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It's simple. They screwed a protest. They screwed themselves by being amateurish.

They didn't put enough time and energy into this.

They need massive personal development in order to pull off a protest beautifully.

Here is an example of an extreme but beautiful protest.

A beautiful protest inspires awe.

Edited by CreamCat

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@Michael569 Funny to see this i just saw a video with a title Extinction Rebellion today and did not read it was the founder. It was on Russel Brands show on YouTube. The founder explains Spiral Dynamics so she is aware of that and apparently has studied molecular biophysics. It's very short Russel Brand does not seem to be interested that much, yet I did not see the whole interview. 
 


Maybe he thinks it's similar to a cult. Or just some movement.

Edited by ValiantSalvatore

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Hi I am part of extinction rebellion, and while I vote against this particular action being done, I attended a meeting for it and know the guys in the video, so know a fair bit about it.

The aim of the action was to 'raise the alarm', as part of a broader strategy of public disruption that has had remarkable results so far in the UK in terms of raising climate breakdown up the agenda. Research shows that non violent civil disobedience is how system change happens. In this case, the strategy involved combining everyday disruption (grabbing attention) with sacrificial symbolism (putting our liberty on the line) to win hearts and minds and polarise the public ('get off the fence'). 'Raising the alarm' didn't cut through the noise in the media on this occasion; getting our message heard in the corporate media is a harder thing than you might think to pull off. Our aims are for the government to tell the truth about the emergency, act now to go carbon neutral by 2025 and arrange a citizen's assembly to guide policy.

This specific action was unwise as it targeted the wrong demographic, and ignored a wider strategic evolution that is meant to see the movement changing focus to government and elites rather than the general public. The movement is very decentralised so actions are done by autonomous groups; 72% of people actually voted against the action, and the fact it went ahead has been recognised as exposing a major flaw in our self organising structure - we're working on it.

As for XR lacking strategy, vision, etc, I suggest you do some cursory research before you speak on the subject - nothing could be further from the truth. And as for a lack of personal development/ spiritual work, XR is jam-packed full of people on spiritual paths and 'doing the inner work' is highly emphasised internally. As for spiral dynamics, XR is not traditional eco activism, it's as much yellow as it is green (as should be indicated by the fact that as was pointed out above, spiral dynamics itself is a component in XR theory).

Finally, it's worth pointing out that although this was conveniently ignored in most of the media coverage, this action was a small part of a coordinated 2 week uprising that happened around the world. In London alone tens of thousands of us were involved in a huge constellation of actions, 1700 arrested. The establishment is trying to ignore us, but we're not going anywhere.

Please, join us. There's not much time left to turn this around, mass movement civil disobedience is the best chance we have to avoid deaths of billions, social collapse and mass extinction.

I'd be happy to answer any questions.

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3 hours ago, Stretch said:

it's as much yellow as it is green

It seemed like amateurish activism that just annoy commoners. Preventing commuters from going to work is similar to playing speakers loudly in a residential area at night. If you play speakers loudly at night near my house, I will not care if you are Green or Yellow or Turquoise.

If you want to annoy people, annoy executives of companies that pollute the environment.

Edited by CreamCat

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Well, like I said, most us didn’t support this particular action for the kinds of reasons you mentioned, and once again, the broad strategy at this point is targeting elites (other actions during the uprising targeted government buildings, the finance sector, etc)...

However, it’s important to keep some context here: the April uprising targeted the general public by shutting down parts of London, and had remarkable results. Public concern about the climate in the UK shot to record levels, parliament and most local councils declared a climate emergency, government set a more ambitious zero carbon target (2050), the language being used in the discourse has shifted (‘emergency’, ‘crisis’, etc), lots of people mobilised globally. Lots of people were annoyed then, too. But it got people talking.

By the way, activism is a messy business. You won't find any social change movement that didn't make mistakes. Ours is an experimental approach as we're innovating in a very complex context, and we've only been going a year - we're still figuring out what works. You wouldn't expect a brand new start-up to win every time. Cut us some slack!

Edited by Stretch

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1 hour ago, Stretch said:

most us didn’t support this particular action for the kinds of reasons you mentioned, and once again, the broad strategy at this point is targeting elites

At least, you are not SJWs, political-correctness police, and whatnot at this point.

Edited by CreamCat

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Imagine already struggling. And then you get some monkey who wants to make it even harder for you by messing with your means of transport. If he was doing this to a crowd of obnoxious high school idiots to spread chaos, okay. But you're not stopping climate change by doing it.

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2 hours ago, Stretch said:

 (other actions during the uprising targeted government buildings, the finance sector, etc)...

very good

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@Stretch

Thanks for giving us the insider knowledge! You actually got me interested to looking up on my local ER movement. If they are as clear headed as you described Britains movement to be, I just might join it B|

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@Hansu That's fantastic, thank you on behalf of nature!

I recommend this intro video by co-founder Gail Bradbrook, it's a tough watch but it's what got me inspired to sign up:

 

Edited by Stretch

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