karkaore

Every path is the same path.

36 posts in this topic

@karkaore  yes everything perfectly contradicts itself and ends back at zero.

Between nothing and everything is. Or take the middle path.

When I say "nothing really matters", what I mean is there is no one way to live your life or goal to reach unless you give yourself that goal.

Existence is the good and the bad stirred into one.

The value of life = The value you give it.

If everything matters gives you absolute love and Bliss you are home.

The best way I can explain enlightenment on an emotional level is, it's the end of resistance and suffering.

 


“Everything is honoured, but nothing matters.” — Eckhart Tolle.

"I have lived on the lip of insanity, wanting to know reasons, knocking on a door. It opens. I've been knocking from the inside." -- Rumi

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On 9/22/2019 at 2:33 PM, Matt8800 said:

@karkaore As a child, I was indoctrinated into Christianity. A few years ago, I got heavily into Buddhism, then yoga and finally the occult.

I can say that the path of Christianity does not resemble the path I ended up taking in the least. I definitely dont share the opinion that I would have ended up in the same place had I continued with Christianity. They are radically different paths that can take one to different heights within a similar time frame.

Ive seen people claim that different paths are the same path. When looking at an evangelical Christian, a Buddhist monk, a witch and a wandering yogi, I dont understand why people think they are the same thing when their experience of life and spirituality is so different. It seems like a form of political correctness that is used in spirituality. People believe it because it feels good to them to believe it imo.

I think that you are getting caught up in looking at the limitations of the religions, but those limitations don't have anything to do with the religion itself, or the truth within it. There are people at all levels of all religions. I came through Christianity full circle, that required mostly rejecting it, discovering Buddhism, and later rediscovering Christianity with greater understanding and seeing that my faith had never been a waste. I believe that every religion is not only a path but a piece of the puzzle. 

As a thought experiment assume that you chose to be indoctrinated in Christianity, assuming we chose to incarnate and chose our lives and our parents. Why did you chose that? What did you gain from it? 

Edited by mandyjw

My Youtube Channel- Light on Earth “We dance round in a ring and suppose, but the Secret sits in the middle and knows.”― Robert Frost

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Yes each religion is a blind man touching a different part of the elephant. 


“Everything is honoured, but nothing matters.” — Eckhart Tolle.

"I have lived on the lip of insanity, wanting to know reasons, knocking on a door. It opens. I've been knocking from the inside." -- Rumi

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@VeganAwake You are precisely correct. But why would you choose to observe this "life" if it didn't matter? Yes, in a way nothing really matters. But i sense there is something much, much bigger going on.

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@karkaore I choose to live life because life is beautiful. 

Nothing matters actually equals complete total unbound freedom. Existence will unfold whether you sit on the couch for your whole life or become the president of the United States. Existence does not judge...

Yes I agree something much bigger, like we are evolving and waking up to realize ourselves. Like a cell realizing its a cell in a human body, but then realizing its actually all the cells and is the human body itself. Trippy right!!

We are waking each other up!!

It has been very nice chatting with you...thank you for just being you ?

 

Edited by VeganAwake

“Everything is honoured, but nothing matters.” — Eckhart Tolle.

"I have lived on the lip of insanity, wanting to know reasons, knocking on a door. It opens. I've been knocking from the inside." -- Rumi

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17 hours ago, mandyjw said:

I think that you are getting caught up in looking at the limitations of the religions, but those limitations don't have anything to do with the religion itself, or the truth within it. There are people at all levels of all religions. I came through Christianity full circle, that required mostly rejecting it, discovering Buddhism, and later rediscovering Christianity with greater understanding and seeing that my faith had never been a waste. I believe that every religion is not only a path but a piece of the puzzle. 

As a thought experiment assume that you chose to be indoctrinated in Christianity, assuming we chose to incarnate and chose our lives and our parents. Why did you chose that? What did you gain from it? 

@mandyjw I dont think it makes sense saying that the limitations of a religion has nothing to do with the religion. That is a self-contradicting statement.

I think what I got out of religion is what happens when you let others tell you what to believe. It showed me the depths of the gullibility of otherwise intelligent people. 

I do believe that people can achieve enlightenment through different paths but I do not believe that enlightenment in different paths is the same.

Ken Wilber co-wrote a book called Transformations of Consciousness. In that book, they conducted a formal, lengthy study of enlightened masters around the world. Those masters were people that were chosen by others that are in the position to make a claim to what the masters' enlightenment is, such as Buddhist leaders in Asia, Yogis in India, Christian contemplatives and many of the masters that are well known in the western world. The names were kept confidential. 

What they found is that when people reached enlightenment through different traditions, their experience of enlightenment, their experience of their life, beliefs about subjective "meanings" and "values" and their experience on how they interacted with others varied radically.

The study showed conclusively that different paths DO NOT lead to the same place. If people are made aware of this study, and they still want to insist that all the paths lead to the same place, what do you think their motivation is to believe that despite the evidence to the contrary? Why is it important to them to believe that? I think thats a fascinating question.

To claim that the path of Mormonism is the same path of witchcraft, shamanism or Tibetan Buddhism is a head-scratcher.

Edited by Matt8800

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1 hour ago, Matt8800 said:

@mandyjw I dont think it makes sense saying that the limitations of a religion has nothing to do with the religion. That is a self-contradicting statement.

I think what I got out of religion is what happens when you let others tell you what to believe. It showed me the depths of the gullibility of otherwise intelligent people. 

I do believe that people can achieve enlightenment through different paths but I do not believe that enlightenment in different paths is the same.

Ken Wilber co-wrote a book called Transformations of Consciousness. In that book, they conducted a formal, lengthy study of enlightened masters around the world. Those masters were people that were chosen by others that are in the position to make a claim to what the masters' enlightenment is, such as Buddhist leaders in Asia, Yogis in India, Christian contemplatives and many of the masters that are well known in the western world. The names were kept confidential. 

What they found is that when people reached enlightenment through different traditions, their experience of enlightenment, their experience of their life, beliefs about subjective "meanings" and "values" and their experience on how they interacted with others varied radically.

The study showed conclusively that different paths DO NOT lead to the same place. If people are made aware of this study, and they still want to insist that all the paths lead to the same place, what do you think their motivation is to believe that despite the evidence to the contrary? Why is it important to them to believe that? I think thats a fascinating question.

To claim that the path of Mormonism is the same path of witchcraft, shamanism or Tibetan Buddhism is a head-scratcher.

I can see where you coming from. This seems reasonable, doesn't it? I am not saying these studies are wrong.

But where is the endpoint to enlightenment? We have different levels of enlightenment, not the enlightenments themselves. 

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@Matt8800 Ooooohhh... good thoughts and good question. Your post triggered a feeling that God wants to experience everything and know himself fully... through limitation. Yes, all the paths are limiting, but yet in that limitation because of the nature of nonduality.... they aren't. 

The potential in studying with an open mind ALL religions and traditions as much as one is able to, just seems exciting to me. It's a newly afforded luxury to us, the ease of which this generation can go about doing just that is unprecedented. 

I was lucky to have a lot of freedom to explore Christianity as a child. I enjoyed studying it, I contemplated Jesus's words and truly tried to understand what he was saying. When I started reading Eckhart Tolle the insights of Jesus's words started falling into place. It was like a seed that had been planted. 

The pointers aren't the same but the thing they are pointing at is. 


My Youtube Channel- Light on Earth “We dance round in a ring and suppose, but the Secret sits in the middle and knows.”― Robert Frost

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1 hour ago, karkaore said:

I can see where you coming from. This seems reasonable, doesn't it? I am not saying these studies are wrong.

But where is the endpoint to enlightenment? We have different levels of enlightenment, not the enlightenments themselves. 

@karkaore No, there is no endpoint to enlightenment but the progressive journey can vary greatly.

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On 22.9.2019 at 10:01 PM, Serotoninluv said:

Indeed. Not many seekers will attend a retreat with the theme “Nothing Matters”.

It is a deep realization that few realize.

For me, the awareness it has no meaning makes it so meaningful. A great paradox ♥️ 

That is because the only meaningful thing there is is meaning, one part of Creation is Meaning.

Nothing matters and Nothing matters. 

Nothing redness.


Glory to Israel

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48 minutes ago, Matt8800 said:

@karkaore No, there is no endpoint to enlightenment but the progressive journey can vary greatly.

Does that mean that these paths are ultimately different? Don't all of them have the same goal? The journeys vary, but the purpose of them is ultimately the same. That's what I meant by "every path is the same path". Every effort we take is pointing us to the same and only thing that really matters.

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19 minutes ago, karkaore said:

Does that mean that these paths are ultimately different? Don't all of them have the same goal? The journeys vary, but the purpose of them is ultimately the same. That's what I meant by "every path is the same path". Every effort we take is pointing us to the same and only thing that really matters.

@karkaore Think of a path like a path of evolution. The True Self/Atman is on a path of eternal evolution. Just like different species take different paths on the evolutionary tree, we take different paths that lead to different ways of being and existing. There is no end point just like there is no end point for species in their evolution. Its in a continual state of flux. One species isnt objectively "better" than another; just different. A lion isnt objectively better than a badger but they are definitely different. I might subjectively prefer the becoming, being and existing of one path over another.

An enlightened Tantrika is going to experience life in a radically different way than an enlightened Zen Buddhist monk. Their continual refinement will continue to take them in different directions.

This agrees with many non-dual traditions, especially western mysticism and some Asian mystical traditions. Other traditions say there is no True Self/Atman but this is just a belief based on dogma if you investigate the claim further.

 

Edited by Matt8800

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22 hours ago, Matt8800 said:

@karkaore Think of a path like a path of evolution. The True Self/Atman is on a path of eternal evolution. Just like different species take different paths on the evolutionary tree, we take different paths that lead to different ways of being and existing. There is no end point just like there is no end point for species in their evolution. Its in a continual state of flux. One species isnt objectively "better" than another; just different. A lion isnt objectively better than a badger but they are definitely different. I might subjectively prefer the becoming, being and existing of one path over another.

An enlightened Tantrika is going to experience life in a radically different way than an enlightened Zen Buddhist monk. Their continual refinement will continue to take them in different directions.

This agrees with many non-dual traditions, especially western mysticism and some Asian mystical traditions. Other traditions say there is no True Self/Atman but this is just a belief based on dogma if you investigate the claim further.

 

We are on the same page after all. ?

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On 9/22/2019 at 2:03 PM, Serotoninluv said:

There is the absolute perfection of what is and the relative perfection we strive for. A bit of a paradox. I’m Perfect, yet also a work in progress. If I say “I’m Perfect as is, there is nothing to do”’ I miss out on purifying my imperfections and becoming more clear. If I say “I am imperfect and need to work toward perfection”, I miss out on the Perfection of Now. 

the answer to life haha

I see life as a garden. Perfect as is, and yet there's always more to do. 

Edited by seeking_brilliance

Check out my lucid dreaming anthology series, Stars of Clay  

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1 hour ago, seeking_brilliance said:


I see life as a garden. Perfect as is, and yet there's always more to do. 

I love it.

I also think there's some interesting poison and hallucinogenic plants in among the beautiful flowers and nutritious vegetables in life's garden. 

Edited by mandyjw

My Youtube Channel- Light on Earth “We dance round in a ring and suppose, but the Secret sits in the middle and knows.”― Robert Frost

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