What is a lie?

[tsuki]

2 hours ago, Truth Addict said:

I don't get it. How can there be something that doesn't exist. How is illusion real but is not existing?

What you are doing is basically this:

Oh look, there is something moving, its bubbly and really difficult to look at. Then, you zoom out and go OH, so it is a wave, and a wave is on the sea, so there really is no wave, but there is the sea. And then, you're like: but what is that thing over there that does not move? And you zoom out and you're like OH, it is a shore that is a part of land! So there is sea and there is shore, so there really is no sea and no shore, but there is the Earth! But hey, what is that thing over there that is not the sea, not the shore not the Earth? So there can be something else other than Earth? OH, that is space! So there is Earth and there is space, but what is that thing... OH SO MAYBE NOTHING REALLY IS THERE AND EVERYTHING IS JUST AN ILLUSION?!

Ultimately, nothing really is there and everything is an illusion, but that is only because you're all zoomed out and deny the validity of your 'intermediate' interpretation. You haven't 'turned back'.
Illusion is a process, not a 'thing'. It is ignorance, finitude, ignoring. Existence is illusory, but it exists.

2 hours ago, Truth Addict said:

Is the interpretation of truth what you mean with the word 'illusion'? If so, Is not the interpretation being?

From the solipsistic perspective, yes somewhat. You, the small ego, are tricking yourself into believing things about what is.
What is, is without qualities in itself, but you as an ego are finite and manufacture things about it because you forget that.
If you stop forgetting that, you will arrive at reality as-is, but you do not get rid of your finitude.
You are bound by your body and its needs and your egoic fragility (care) does not allow you to just die like that.

From the solipsistic perspective however, this 'interpretation of truth' that stems from ignorance is creation itself.
You are "illusing" things into existence because you're finite. How cool is that?

But wait, that is just 'small head solipsism'.
There is also 'big head solipsism' where you understand that reality that binds your small ego with the body, is a mind itself.
You you can get out of your 'small ego' and inhabit the 'big ego' directly and do all sorts of crazy shit with illusion that manifests things into existence "objectively". That is what, I believe, Leo teaches. It is very reminiscent of the Hermetic tradition.

2 hours ago, Truth Addict said:

What I mean by the word 'appearance' is one irreducible thing, be it thoughts, sights, sounds, interpretations, etc... or a mixture of some or all of them. We might as well call it 'the present moment'.

I'm not sure I get the significance of this paragraph. I hope that the previous section clears some thing up.

Edited August 24, 2019 by tsuki

[Truth Addict]

@tsuki

Whatever you say. Thanks.

[tsuki]

1 hour ago, Truth Addict said:

Whatever you say. Thanks.

You're welcome, man.
If you feel like I'm saying that you are deluded or something, please remember that you are an amazing person and that we need more delusion like yours .

The 'whatever you say' attitude is just the testimony of your sincerity, and how you can experience this yourself without thinking: 'am I deluding myself here?'. You know what you are, now be something else.

[Truth Addict]

13 minutes ago, tsuki said:

The 'whatever you say' attitude

That was not an attitude. I meant it literally.

Whatever you say/think/believe becomes the truth.

[WelcometoReality]

 

 

On 2019-08-24 at 7:38 AM, Truth Addict said:

@tsuki @WelcometoReality

I like the distinction you've made between lies and illusion.

Anyway, let alone the earlier distinction, isn't the distinction between 'what is' and 'illusion' illusory? I mean isn't 'what is' merely an appearance? Isn't 'what is' how it appears to be? How could illusions exist at all?

Furthermore, isn't language itself illusory as well? So how can we know what a lie actually is while we still have to make sure that our method is not one? I would say that it works both ways, depending on how we look at it.

I would say that a lie is what we think it is. We create lies with our thinking.

From the absolute perspective the truth and the lie both arises, no difference there. 

Have you ever heard about the swamp monster kakapataput? It smells like roses, farts rainbows and has a beard made of cotton candy. And I just now created it. ?

Seems like it takes language to lie. I have a hard time imagining that a birds song would be lying. I see each word as a pointer to something same as thoughts.