No advanced growth possible without psychedelics

[Meditationdude]

@Haloman exactly, am I just spinning my wheels here trying to do all this spiritual work? I have 3-4 hours I can dedicate daily to this practice but I don’t think it’s enough. 

[Hsinav]

56 minutes ago, Arhattobe said:

In fact some of the most famous practitioners through out history warn people against taking mind altering substances. Buddhism is one example.

Because they don't know what it can do for you. A lot of famous gurus think psychedelics effects you like alcohol and weed. The don´t have a clue how people benefit from it 2019, its kind of a new path. Like buddhism was 2500 years ago.

[Meditationdude]

@Inliytened1 you have had deep awakenings like Leo without psychedelics? How?

[DaneV]

12 minutes ago, Meditationdude said:

@DaneV I’ve done mushrooms before and had an awakening but after I had a big ego backlash and started doing drugs again (I’m an addict and I was sober, but relapsed a couple days after my trip). Took over a year to get sober again. 

Thats why I don’t want to try anything stronger like dmt or lsd. 

That`s an understable reason.

But you say that you already had an awakening, so why is it you think that another one could be beneficial ? Again, you should really understand that you cannot drug yourself into a permanent awakening or anything close to it. I suppose you already know Alan Watt`s quote about this:

“If you get the message, hang up the phone. For psychedelic drugs are simply instruments, like microscopes, telescopes, and telephones. The biologist does not sit with eye permanently glued to the microscope, he goes away and works on what he has seen.”

Also, read Ram Dass` opinion about it. He has had more psychedelic experience than probably any of us in this forum:

https://www.ramdass.org/the-trap-of-psychedelic-experiences/

It seems to me that your ego is telling you that you cannot advance because you don`t do psychedelics. So it can stay in it`s comfort zone and not do the real spiritual "work" and make changes in it`s comfortable (?) western life.

 

Edited August 19, 2019 by DaneV

[tedens]

@Meditationdude Dude, try to elevate Your awareness, just question Yourself as strongest as You can.

[TrynaBeTurquoise]

3 minutes ago, DaneV said:

That`s an understable reason.

But you say that you already had an awakening, so why is it you think that another one could be beneficial ? Again, you should really understand that you cannot drug yourself into a permanent awakening or anything close to it. I suppose you already know Alan Watt`s quote about this:

“If you get the message, hang up the phone. For psychedelic drugs are simply instruments, like microscopes, telescopes, and telephones. The biologist does not sit with eye permanently glued to the microscope, he goes away and works on what he has seen.”

Also, read Ram Dass` opinion about it. He has had more psychedelic experience than probably any of us in this forum:

https://www.ramdass.org/the-trap-of-psychedelic-experiences/

 

 

So you are just taking the opinions of some people who have done psychedelics as raw truth while ignoring other peoples opinions who have done them.

of course you cant “drug yourself into enlightenment” this is a reductionist way of thinking anyway equating psychedelics to other forms of drugs.

the point is there is no right or wrong way, but psychedelics can be a powerful tool if you find them useful. 

“If you get the message hang up the phone” is a fear-based mindset that CAN hinder further growth, there is no way of knowing you got the “final message you could receive” so-to speak. Of course there are stupid and responsible ways of doing them. 

[Shadowraix]

We've been spoiled. 

[DaneV]

2 minutes ago, TrynaBeTurquoise said:

 

“If you get the message hang up the phone” is a fear-based mindset that CAN hinder further growth, there is no way of knowing you got the “final message you could receive” so-to speak. Of course there are stupid and responsible ways of doing them. 

To me it`s not fear based at all and I think Alan Watt`s didn`t say it to bring out fear. I Did around 15 trips myself and I will continue to do so without fear (I believe most psychedelics are absolutely safe) but there comes a point where triping is just not as viable anymore. This is based on my own experience, confirmed by opinions of some "veterans" who have way more experience in this path than I do.

[TrynaBeTurquoise]

6 minutes ago, DaneV said:

To me it`s not fear based at all and I think Alan Watt`s didn`t say it to bring out fear. I Did around 15 trips myself and I will continue to do so without fear (I believe most psychedelics are absolutely safe) but there comes a point where triping is just not as viable anymore. This is based on my own experience, confirmed by opinions of some "veterans" who have way more experience in this path than I do.

Its not viable IF you aren’t getting any further benefit out of it. 

But it isnt a raw truth that at some point it HAS to stop being viable for everyone.

Have you considered that there might be some sort of roadblock? Hence why psychedelics alone wont do all the work for you. Thats where other forms of consciousness work come in for you. 

You are right its not necessarily fear-based for everyone but i think it can be interpreted that way in some instances if not understood correctly.

Edited August 19, 2019 by TrynaBeTurquoise

[Meditationdude]

@DaneV yes comfortable, indeed. 

I get what you’re saying.

The awakening was amazing but it wasn’t anything like Leo talks about after taking 5meo and LSD. Also it was 3 years ago and honestly I kinda forgot what it was like. It definitely propelled me to do spiritual work more seriously but I feel like I’m missing out. 

I know I’m projecting. 

[Meditationdude]

@tedens I’m trying man 

[d0ornokey]

your journey is your own journey dawg. you can be happy with being just exactly where you are 

[Matt8800]

4 hours ago, Meditationdude said:

After listening to Leo’s content for years I’m starting to realize that significant growth isn’t going to be possible (at least at the rate Leo and some of these advanced forum people) without doing hardcore psychedelics like DMT and LSD.  

For those of us who want to awaken without these aids (like myself) I feel like it’s not possible and/or we are being left behind. 

It just seems like most of Leo’s content comes from tripping and unless we join him we are fucked and will be left behind eventually. 

Anyone else feel this way? Like I hear all this amazing content but most of it will never be actualized for us bc we don’t take these substances. Is it even possible to see the Truth without them? 

Is there even such a thing as a dharma teacher who doesn’t do these drugs?

I realize this is my ego but guess what, I’m not awake so this is how I communicate, this is my reality. Don’t give me some answer like “all is love bro” and “it’s all an illusion”. So unhelpful. 

@Meditationdude Psychedelics awakened me in a powerful way. I would not have been awakened without them. There is absolutely no way I would have made the progress without them. 

As to what it takes for others to awaken, thats not for me to say.

Have you ever thought exactly why you are so opposed to psychedelics? Is it societies rules that have been imprinted? Is it fear of having to release control? Whatever it is, it is limiting imo. There is no objective truth that psychedelics are "bad". Its a "truth" that depends on who you ask, what culture they live in, what time in history they live in, etc, etc.

[Inliytened1]

39 minutes ago, Meditationdude said:

@Inliytened1 you have had deep awakenings like Leo without psychedelics? How?

I have.  I have not seen myself creating every hair on my hand but i have become directly conscious of the nature of reality, Oneness, etc.  I did not have direct realization of Love but the Divine and divine love was everpresent throughout all awakenings.   They were Kundalini awakenings where the a feeling of Being (i refer to kundalini as Being) became total.   The self collapses into pure Being.

I don't know how..it just happened while meditating and doing self inquiry and no mind techniques.   But everyone's situation is different.

It does sound like pyschedelics can be a great tool so I'm not against them if they work for people who have been trying to discover Truth for years or decades with no luck and lots of suffering.

 

[Matt8800]

3 hours ago, Meditationdude said:

@Enlightenment then why does Leo do them so often? 

why does Leo need to take DMT 13 days in a row (he said that he did this on a solo retreat) to see realize Truth? Is that really what’s necessary to reach the levels of consciousness we are all after? Bc if so, I’m out. 

@Meditationdude You can reach great heights without psychedelics. I just think, based on personal experience, psychedelics take you much bigger heights. If you are OK with a slower, more difficult path then I suppose it doesnt matter. (People that have no experience with psychedelics will disagree with these statements due to their inexperience)

3 hours ago, Ero said:

That is just not true. 

Depends on who you talk to. It was true for me.

Edited August 19, 2019 by Matt8800

[Meditationdude]

@Matt8800 I mentioned above why I won’t do them. Basically after an awesome shroom trip 3 yrs ago I had a hard basklash and relapsed on opiates. Took a year to get sober again. 

[Inliytened1]

6 minutes ago, Meditationdude said:

@Matt8800 I mentioned above why I won’t do them. Basically after an awesome shroom trip 3 yrs ago I had a hard basklash and relapsed on opiates. Took a year to get sober again. 

Then don't give up.  You can have all realizations without pyschedelics.  It's been done before!  

[Meditationdude]

@Inliytened1 I’m not giving up, no way. Just bummed I’m missing all the juiciness that I keep hearing about on Leo’s content and this forum. 

[Leo Gura]

Psychedics are not required.

However, I must be honest with you guys. Most of you are so lost in your minds and so unserious about doing concentration practices and/or yoga, that you will never grasp the deepest things I talk about without psychedelics. The psychedelics are recommended because you are not motivated enough to do the manual legwork.

If you refuse the psychedelic path, you must work your ass off doing concentration practices and yoga.

This dabbling bullshit does not work and you will waste years of time.

Spirituality is the most hardcore pursuit that man can undertake. Start treating it as such. It will be worth it.

Or just forget about spirituality and do basic self-help. You need to be very clear with your intent. What do you want? Do you really want Truth? If you do you should be willing to sell your mother into slavery to get it.

[Leo Gura]

1 minute ago, Ero said:

@Leo Gura It ain't the boat, it's the river

When the river is the Amazon, you need a boat.