When the path leads me to doubt my relationship

[matthew7]

I was hoping to solicit a bit of wisdom from members who have experience with being fully satisfied in romantic relationship and with feeling the painful ambivalence of loving someone deeply and sensing that life with that person isn't quite emotionally or spiritually tenable. I was hoping someone could potentially speak to intuitions I have that selection of relationship partner impinges profoundly on the energy we can furnish for creativity, spirituality, and consciousness. I love my partner very much. I'm also frequently ruminative and uncentered when I approach lower receptivity in her toward curious and creative inquiry into understanding more deeply and broadly what it is that is going on here. I thought I could manage it, and take pleasure in the small playful serious conventional activities of relational life while nurturing love, beauty, and truth/consciousness in my own interior. Sometimes I'm able to, and sometimes we can get there together, but most of the time, I feel constrained as (I conjecture) lack of anticipated receptivity limits initiatory energy for creativity, and leads me toward a cranky malaise. I'm wondering if this is simply evidence of my needing to move on, painfully, with heartache and confusion on both of our parts as we mourn all of the beauty that we had together, or whether there's a way forward that I'm not considering. What place do relationships have amidst our path toward greater love, beauty, and truth, given that the vast majority of people on earth do not aspire to inhabit these values? I find myself saddened by the apparent irreconcilable dissonance between the way I may need to live my life and the way my partner wishes to live hers. Though I know I'm in a state of denial of what is as I share this, I also lament why love/bonding is possible where spiritual/values compatibility is not. It causes so much heartache. Perhaps I'm caught up in codependency. Perhaps I labor under false beliefs about the scarcity of love out there, scarcity of love for my partner, or I'm oriented towards the partial love to the exclusion of the unconditional love. Perhaps, and at the same time, the heartache I cause in my partner who trusted my promises, and the sadness and guilt I feel for stimulating her pain seem very real, however mistaken they may be. Thanks for reading. 

[Nahm]

16 hours ago, matthew7 said:

feeling the painful ambivalence of loving someone deeply

Is the depth of love you, and yours to then give infinitely, or derived from perception, essentially, from your partner?  Confusion here is, sensational guidance ignored, and thought story based on the fundamental belief in need, chosen. The sensations got suppressed. They’ll continue to be avoided, until one begins to recognize their true nature - is none other than what one seeks in a partner. 

and sensing that life with that person isn't quite emotionally or spiritually tenable.

Listen to that sense (sensation), it is edgeless and clear.    Thinking, finite, linear, clumsy, riddled with uncertainty. 

I was hoping someone could potentially speak to intuitions

What is intuition? This is of the upmost importance to life, as well as your specific situation (post).

I have that selection of relationship partner impinges profoundly on the energy we can furnish for creativity, spirituality, and consciousness.

Distinction between chemistry of the body mind, and your path. 

I love my partner very much.

Sounds pretty clear. Had you said “I love being with...”, not as clear. You sound clear on the chemistry. 

I'm also frequently ruminative and uncentered

Meditation, followed by writing about your sensations. Intuition goes through the roof, after a few good releases. Rumination starts to dissipate, as it was being fueled by the misunderstanding and ignoring of sensations.

In full living of sensation, there is never the desire to be “centered”. The desire to be centered is derived from innocently suppressing the sensations, and shifting to the thought stories, then finding oneself lost in the woods of feelings, wanting to again, get “centered”. You already are the center. This is for living.

when I approach lower receptivity in her toward curious and creative inquiry into understanding more deeply and broadly what it is that is going on here.

She’s doing the same thing. 

I thought I could manage it, and take pleasure in the small playful serious conventional activities of relational life while nurturing love, beauty, and truth/consciousness in my own interior.

You can. “Manage it” translates to avoiding and suppressing my feelings - keeping it “in check”. Crying, balling, barfing up delusions of misunderstandings, - “clearing yourself”, “purification”...this is what’s been missing, for both of you. It has little to nothing to do with each other. 

Sometimes I'm able to, and sometimes we can get there together, but most of the time, I feel constrained as (I conjecture)

This make any more sense now? 

lack of anticipated receptivity

My expectations not being met. Expectations I innocently made from a deep place, to get the love I need. Revisit the barfing. You are the love, you don’t “need it”. It’s for giving and sharing, not getting. Assuming you’re of age, in the love sense. 

limits initiatory energy for creativity,

No “it” doesn’t. That’s your own thought story playing out. 

and leads me toward a cranky malaise.

“It” didn’t...the suppression is. 

I'm wondering if this is simply evidence of my needing to move on, painfully, with heartache and confusion on both of our parts as we mourn all of the beauty that we had together, or whether there's a way forward that I'm not considering.

That one sentence is riddled with more clues to your own sensations. 

How does that sentence feel? What is the message of the sensation, the feeling?

We are sometimes such drama queens with acting out our Shakespearean-sized thought stories. 

What place do relationships have amidst our path toward greater love, beauty, and truth, given that the vast majority of people on earth do not aspire to inhabit these values?

The discovery, and the giving of yourself. 

I find myself saddened by the apparent irreconcilable dissonance between the way I may need to live my life and the way my partner wishes to live hers.

Stop judging yourself, and you’ll stop judging her. What will begin to arise, is the dream you guys could be creating.

Get 3 small dry erase boards. One for your “what I really want” adventure. One for hers. One for both of you, to talk and fill together. 

Though I know I'm in a state of denial of what is as I share this, 

Sensations. That “what is” you speak of, is thought based. What IS is found in the discovery & understanding of sensation. 

I also lament why love/bonding is possible where spiritual/values compatibility is not.

All things are possible in love. Love is infallible. The spiritual values you refer to here, are thought based, conceptual - nothing. 

It causes so much heartache.

Keep an eye out for ‘write offs’. Catch yourself saying “it” - and stop, and ask yourself - “wait, what exactly is this “it” I refer to?”. 

Perhaps I'm caught up in codependency.

It’s learned. It’s conditioning. You both learned it.  It’s perpetuated together, and that’s why it’s hard to realize wtf is going on. What is codependency? One can not both understand it, and create it. It’s one or the other. Nobody who understands it would ever create it. It would not be bearable. 

Perhaps I labor under false beliefs about the scarcity of love out there, scarcity of love for my partner, or I'm oriented towards the partial love to the exclusion of the unconditional love.

Again, catch and scrutinize your write offs like “out there”. What exactly do you mean - “out there”? 

Will you one day find this unconditional love, on a mountain top, in a tomb, in the heavens...?

Where is the only place love has ever been?

Perhaps, and at the same time, the heartache I cause in my partner

Consider the contrast of this.... If you stated “Perhaps, and at the same time, the immense love I cause in my partner”. Notice, or consider, the difference & similarity between that and your statement, is thoughts - veiling sensations - and beliefs, like “causation”. Love can not be compartmentalized, nor divided. Judgment & need are a smokescreen of thinking.

who trusted my promises, and the sadness and guilt I feel for stimulating her pain seem very real, however mistaken they may be. 

The are very mistaken.

If you promised love, and she trusted you, depended on you for love - she learns what it means to play the fool, and so do you. Love is given, love is shared, love can not be bartered, taken, stolen, nor promised. You had no chance of following through on such a promise. The question is, how deeply will you and her research these things. How much will you understand, learn - versus just writing off the whole lesson. 

A first step is to consider, you’re creating the emotions right under your own nose. Pick sadness & guilt apart, Google them, research the emotional scale, understand them. See how you are creating them. You don’t have to. 

 

 

[matthew7]

@Nahm Thank you very much for this. I've been giving it careful attention. I wonder if you can speak to a couple confusions on my part (if you kindly have the time). 

As I find myself evaluating whether to be in or leave the relationship, if I'm trusting my sensations primarily as guidepoints (and I write this with humility that I have some distance to travel in being about to read my sensations adequately), how do I discern the meaning of sensations that clearly tell me, this isn't right, around perceptions of my partner's disagreeableness / selfishness / criticalness / shallowness; And the meaning of sensations that tell me, this is comfortable, this is love, I am soothed and connected here around my partner's love / tenderness / vulnerability. I find myself receiving alternating sensations and not knowing which should inform my actions. Is the solution that the action is not necessarily to leave, but rather to undergo the purification/barfing up process and to stop the suppression of those sensations. I wonder what this entails. Am I impervious and centered amidst the disagreeableness/selfishness/etc. once purified. I suppose I don't know which sensations to heed, and what type of action to take. 

I also wonder about the process by which purification, barfing up (for both of us) occurs. 

Much gratitude. 

[possibilities]

It’s all just about compatibility (which can vary overtime). I don’t understand your situation enough but I don’t see any situation in which a relationship is intrinsically bad between two compatible people. To me at present a true relationship is merely the exchange of oxytocin, followed by stories and summed up by sentimentality (regarding created memories). It’s the nature of a pair bonding relationship. They can be extremely rewarding, true and good but then for unstable relationships the opposite is also true, the latter case reflecting the dark side of oxytocin. So if anything, again I don’t know your situation well enough of course but I’d avoid black/white thinking, judgement, lack of critical thinking and lack of openness.

Peace and all the best

[Nahm]

Evaluating and trusting are thinking. Draw upon your being, rather than reducing yourself to guide points. Sensations don’t have meaning, that’s the beauty of it. How you feel is how you feel, wether you’re honest, clever, sneaky or whatever, how you feel is none the less, how you feel. To one’s degree of expression, willingness and self honesty, sensations transcend thought in intuition. Purification is ideal, regardless. Write about your sensations, separate the thought stories.

 

[matthew7]

@Nahm Appreciate it (although I remain a bit confused on what to do with the sensations). Can you say a bit more about purification? Not understanding this part. 

[Nahm]

@matthew7 Purification occurs when we become willing to see how sneaky thinking is, and we recognize we create our own thought stories, which is so sneaky we create an “identity” with it. We didn’t really though. That’s delusion, falsity, misunderstanding - not actuality. And it is let go. 

[matthew7]

@Nahm I see. And what role does thinking serve in life? It supports survival, problem-solving, and tells stories, so has important effects in the world, and is indispensable, but is at the same time is not fundamentally real? 

[Nahm]

@matthew7 Real, is just another thought. 

[Nahm]

 The path never leads you to doubt a relationship. What you seek, is seeking you. 

[matthew7]

@Nahm Thanks. I think I would appreciate a bit more concreteness and nuance, but I see where you're pointing and perhaps that's what's important here. One possible issue is that purification as you've described it can be described in part as a cognitive capacity, and thus exists as an attribute of persons. I'll think of some practices to open up more space and invite a bit more purification on my part. It does seem however that others do affect our capacity to undergo these changes. Anyone who has been in a sustained relationship with another person in love or work immediately recognizes this. I'm not sure what your life circumstances are like, but I would imagine you're able to sustain these mindsets/attunements in part because you've curated your world to support them. Reducing these nuances to poignant poetic axioms seems to have a benefit, but at this stage at least, I'll need the nuance to be accounted for and integrated with the other mindset. If you have more to share, I welcome it. Appreciate what you've already expressed. 

[Nahm]

@matthew7 If you want to undo specific axioms, dualities, ask short, specific questions. Dispel of paragraphs of all too subtle intentions of being understood. Ask questions in brevity, in seeking to understand.