Posted August 14, 2019 17 minutes ago, Fishy said: Hehe yea. Let's skip the whole non dual circle for this time, even tho it's funny? 1 hour ago, AlldayLoop said: To whom is it obvious to? @Fishy This shows you that it is not obvious. It’s an interesting way of showing that nothing is true. If I state any statement, you can always ask ‘to whom is this true’? Since there is no one behind the scenes, the statement is not true for anybody, hence it isn’t true. "Not believing your own thoughts, you’re free from the primal desire: the thought that reality should be different than it is. You realise the wordless, the unthinkable. You understand that any mystery is only what you yourself have created. In fact, there’s no mystery. Everything is as clear as day. It’s simple, because there really isn’t anything. There’s only the story appearing now. And not even that.” — Byron Katie Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted August 14, 2019 1 hour ago, How to be wise said: Notice that 0 is itself a quality. When I say that reality has no qualities, I’m not talking about the number 0. To the mind, it appears as though reality is infinite. But that doesn’t make it so. Notice that you can never confirm infinity. By definition of infinity! You can only say that “it appears as though the mind is infinite.” The mind is a subset of reality. It is possible to erase the mind and keep reality, but not vice versa. For example, in a no-mind state, the mind ceases but reality continues. The concept and symbol 0 is not that which is refers to. All language and symbolic representation is a map, not the territory. When I say 0 = infinity, it is pointing towards something, it is not to be taken literally. You cannot confirm infinity. Confirmation is a function of mind, not being. Being is infinite. You can either be conscious of this, or not. But trying to “confirm” is just more ego, more mind. The mind being a subset doesnt change the fact that it’s not separate. Separation is yet another function of mind. So if the mind is infinite, by definition, reality must be too because reality and mind are not separate, they are one in the same. Moreover, trying to create the distinction/duality of “reality” is still the mind. Without mind, all that’s left is one unified being. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted August 14, 2019 23 minutes ago, How to be wise said: @Fishy This shows you that it is not obvious. It’s an interesting way of showing that nothing is true. If I state any statement, you can always ask ‘to whom is this true’? Since there is no one behind the scenes, the statement is not true for anybody, hence it isn’t true. No words can contain truth as they can only point towards it, the nature of langue fail to explain truth fully. Even tho there is nobody behind the scene doesn't make infinity less obvious tho, it's known in a way even tho nobody knows. Everything is and everything is not, it's all a paradox. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted August 14, 2019 (edited) I think it depends how you define reality and mind. I have a different idea about them, but ... maybe there's a better definition. Edited August 14, 2019 by abrakamowse Don’t you realize that all of you together are the temple of God and that the Spirit of God lives in you? 1 Corinthians 3:16 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted August 14, 2019 (edited) 19 minutes ago, Fishy said: No words can contain truth as they can only point towards it, the nature of langue fail to explain truth fully. Even tho there is nobody behind the scene doesn't make infinity less obvious tho, it's known in a way even tho nobody knows. Everything is and everything is not, it's all a paradox. Infinity is not actually real. If it was, you should be able to answer the question “to whom is it real to?” Edited August 14, 2019 by How to be wise "Not believing your own thoughts, you’re free from the primal desire: the thought that reality should be different than it is. You realise the wordless, the unthinkable. You understand that any mystery is only what you yourself have created. In fact, there’s no mystery. Everything is as clear as day. It’s simple, because there really isn’t anything. There’s only the story appearing now. And not even that.” — Byron Katie Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted August 14, 2019 15 minutes ago, How to be wise said: Infinity is not actually real. If it was, you should be able to answer the question “to whom is it real to?” Being is infinity. Its conscept "whom" that is make belive. Infinity/nothing is imagining "whomness" Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted August 14, 2019 25 minutes ago, Fishy said: Being is infinity. Being is not localized. IMO. Don’t you realize that all of you together are the temple of God and that the Spirit of God lives in you? 1 Corinthians 3:16 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted August 14, 2019 (edited) 6 minutes ago, abrakamowse said: Being is not localized. IMO. Truth. Locality is illusion. There is no locality in infinity. Edited August 14, 2019 by Fishy Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted August 14, 2019 @How to be wise Just NO. You are God. You are Truth. You are Love. You are Infinity. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted August 14, 2019 10 minutes ago, Fishy said: Truth. Locality is illusion. There is no locality in infinity. That's the problem and that's why is so hard to talk about "IT". In my mind infinity means that something is limitless, that is everywhere but for me it has some idea of localization, in the sense that you can't measure it but it is in a place. A place that has no end, but for me implies localization. But I know that this is my idea because of how I learned or my culture and I understand that your definition can be different. It's crazy, right? hehehe... But I agree with @Leo Gura that it is better to always be open to the idea of "I don't know". I tend to have my own ideas but always be open to other interpretations and that others can have different concepts and definitions of the same word/concept. Don’t you realize that all of you together are the temple of God and that the Spirit of God lives in you? 1 Corinthians 3:16 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted August 14, 2019 5 minutes ago, abrakamowse said: That's the problem and that's why is so hard to talk about "IT". In my mind infinity means that something is limitless, that is everywhere but for me it has some idea of localization, in the sense that you can't measure it but it is in a place. A place that has no end, but for me implies localization. But I know that this is my idea because of how I learned or my culture and I understand that your definition can be different. It's crazy, right? hehehe... But I agree with @Leo Gura that it is better to always be open to the idea of "I don't know". I tend to have my own ideas but always be open to other interpretations and that others can have different concepts and definitions of the same word/concept. Yes, that is if you define infinity inside a space. There is no space. I'm talking infinity as in infinite potential, possibility. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted August 14, 2019 17 minutes ago, Fishy said: Yes, that is if you define infinity inside a space. There is no space. I'm talking infinity as in infinite potential, possibility. Well, I know infinity can't be inside of nothing, otherwise it won't be infinity by definition. But, infinity contains everything that exists. Don’t you realize that all of you together are the temple of God and that the Spirit of God lives in you? 1 Corinthians 3:16 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted August 14, 2019 1 hour ago, Fishy said: Being is infinity. Its conscept "whom" that is make belive. Infinity/nothing is imagining "whomness" The mind is infinite, not being. Being has no quality. The reason why the ‘whom’ question is so effective, is because it takes the mind with it. What you’re left with is nothingness. "Not believing your own thoughts, you’re free from the primal desire: the thought that reality should be different than it is. You realise the wordless, the unthinkable. You understand that any mystery is only what you yourself have created. In fact, there’s no mystery. Everything is as clear as day. It’s simple, because there really isn’t anything. There’s only the story appearing now. And not even that.” — Byron Katie Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted August 14, 2019 To understand something, you must well... understand it. When you talk about 'infinity' you have an understanding of it. Then all talk of 'infinity' is based on that understanding. The natural question to ask as a consequence is: 'Does my understanding of infinity have infinite depth to it?' In other words, is your understanding of 'infinity' inexhaustable? Can you keep on discovering new aspects to your understanding without end? The only possible awareness that could possibly even get close to having an inexhaustable understanding of 'infinity' is Absolute Infinity itself. If the understanding is limited on the other hand, it can only be a 'finity', and hence you have not grasped the true meaning of 'infinity'. All stories and explanations are false. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted August 14, 2019 (edited) 11 hours ago, How to be wise said: This is one thing that I disagree with Leo on. Reality is not infinite, rather the mind is infinite. What’s the difference? Well, reality can also exist beyond mind. And beyond mind, reality is just itself. It has no qualities. But the ‘material world’ is the mind. Everything you can know or understand is the mind. And that is infinite. Just a subtle difference I wanted to point out. Mind and reality are the same thing, yet is infinite but neither exist. Nothingness, Absolute Truth, The Self, Godhead, Emptiness, etc. is infinite. Leo is not the only one saying this. Every esoteric tradition and enlightened person says the same thing. Maybe slightly different language but it’s essence is the same. This is no something Leo is just telling you. Edited August 14, 2019 by kieranperez Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted August 14, 2019 1 hour ago, How to be wise said: The mind is infinite, not being. Being has no quality. Dude, stop talking nonsense. You don't know what mind, being, or infinity are. Mind is finite. You are God. You are Truth. You are Love. You are Infinity. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted August 15, 2019 Mind = Reality. Reality is finite, a mind is finite. An infinite number of marbles, is no marbles at all. To say Ultimate Reality is Infinite, I think involves a degree of choice and depends on one's metaphysics. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted August 15, 2019 9 minutes ago, RichardY said: Mind = Reality. Reality is finite, a mind is finite. An infinite number of marbles, is no marbles at all. To say Ultimate Reality is Infinite, I think involves a degree of choice and depends on one's metaphysics. How can that which is finite take on an infinite number of possible forms? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
