Why Talent Is Overrated in Spirituality (Shinzen Young Case Study)

[Joseph Maynor]

5 minutes ago, zeroISinfinity said:

Apparent fragmentation if you want me to put it correctly. 

How about fragmentation AND no fragmentation?  You like paradox?  Most people don't yet like paradox.  Most people are stuck in the Paradigm of Belief.  Paradox keeps the Mind from locking and blocking you within beliefs by keeping your Mind open and in its place.  Paradoxes are not beliefs, they're tools to keep the Mind from assuming its beliefs are Being.  The Tao that can be Named is Not the Eternal Tao.

Edited August 1, 2019 by Joseph Maynor

[Aakash]

@zeroISinfinity Okay, now what about the depth of consciousness ? 

[zeroISinfinity]

17 minutes ago, Aakash said:

@zeroISinfinity Okay, now what about the depth of consciousness ? 

All answers are within you. You can become them. Nothing is hidden if you really honestly want them.Hope you get your God realization "experience". 

One of my first Toughts after recollection was. OMFG I got myself into deep mysticism ?. 

Conciousness is beyond all infinities. 

Edited August 1, 2019 by zeroISinfinity

[Key Elements]

3 hours ago, Aakash said:

@Key Elements Let me explain like this. If a facet of god is self - deception and it’s infinite. How do you escape it all of a sudden ? 

Are you asking, how do you have a sudden awakening (Kensho)? It depends on your situation. In my case, it happened in my childhood around the time when there was a war outside of our home. We were hiding. Like I said, I have to explain all this in my life purpose because the story adds up. It's profoundly meaningful and one thing leads to another. Because of this experience, I don't encourage inducing it with a strong method, like psychedelics. In my case, if I did psychedelics, I suspect that my path will lose meaning. Well, it's your choice. I don't go around telling ppl what to do. I just think that if you do things out of love, it can induce awakening. But, that love better be deep and genuine. Since I was a child, I didn't even know that was an awakening. There were other profound indications that pointed to it.

[Key Elements]

5 hours ago, Aakash said:

@Key Elements i didn’t get what he meant by being shot with an arrow that went through time and space. What it sounds like was he basically went back to his physical body after realising it’s all one with all the “understanding” of god  ? This is the only inference I can make. 

Shinzen Young was saying, somewhere in the middle of the clip, that "the Source created a wormhole." The Source is Shinzen Young's way of describing God (meaning, you, the infinite consciousness). The wormhole represents Riding the Ox Backwards. It's this transformation back into your ego from God.

[Joseph Maynor]

Leave Shinzen Young alone.  He is fortunate to be one person among us to be able to give something back to the world.  Be tactful.  You take shots at people so easily.  Reverse that.  Try to avoid taking shots at people: Err on that side.  That's a good single-principle strategy point that you can work with for increasing your social maturity.  This is Interpersonal Development work.  You gotta mediate that sharp edge.

Videos on point to watch:

 

Edited August 1, 2019 by Joseph Maynor

[Aakash]

@Key Elements @zeroISinfinity 

How does one get to the end of something that is infinite ? 

So what your saying is pure consciousness is beyond any degrees of conscious. Kinda like a “all conscious is one thing” 

So your saying there’s no states of consciousness. It’s just what is. Isn’t that everything being one and not two ? 

[Aakash]

@Key Elements yeah that’s what I inferred. Understanding of how to get back to ego is understanding of how to be one and two. 

But this segment is no different to other teachers. I’m saying from my understanding at current. 

That the ideal ego is 90:10 no survival to survival. This is unconditional love. As your still a finite body, limitations still apply. 

So think about it, is your action unconditional love or is it that your still within a greater unconditional love ? 

I see what your saying and if this were true shizen yung would be omniscient, I’m not saying he is or is not. It’s like I said, I don’t know his teachings. I’m asking you 

Edited August 1, 2019 by Aakash

[Aakash]

When you loop around and two is infinite lol! Then you by definition must be infinite. The only thing you could do to scale a model of infinity is create a strange loop within a strange loop. Model scale size version. You know literally infintismal: infinite in ratio. 

God is self-deceptive precisely because it is unconditionally loving. To counter self- deception. You would have to create a strange loop of self-deception that can extend to infinity over time. This is ultimately why I say spiral dynamics is itself the most important model in the universe. 

Ps: even I wasn’t smart enough to figure this one out. So it’s not like I think your wrong. I’m just saying think about it or don’t think about it. 

Edited August 1, 2019 by Aakash

[zeroISinfinity]

Pure Conciousness there is literally nothing there. All there is, is infinite potential / Infinite Love say  lets like this. You understand why people call it God. It feels like God no denial about it. 

Black hole.

 

 

 

[Aakash]

@zeroISinfinity Yes pure consciousness is indistinguishable from void in words.  But how do you then become it. The answer is states of consciousness. 

There is a difference between having x-ray vision and touching an electromagnetic wavelength physically 

[Aakash]

Likewise dissolution of ego is not about seeing it with x-ray vision. It’s about becoming egoless with love. In this way enlightenment is not binary but effort- based. 

Its as Jesus said. Love thy enemy for they are you 

even an enlightened being has ego. An enlightened master reduces their ego to minimal. There is no escaping dualities. Transcending dualities is understanding both sides of duality individually. Why one can not 100% exist and the other can’t 0%. It’s the meaning of going full circle. Reached 85-90% that now I’m at 0% with it. 

There is degrees of everything because it exist because of love. So a teacher has to teach love but in these terms. But you have to acknowledge yourself that there are degrres of everything otherwise you won’t understand what god is 

 

Edited August 1, 2019 by Aakash

[zeroISinfinity]

Meditation is the Way. 

You die. That you that I am speaking is not your ego self. It is your awareness. 

Oh scary shit. Ofcourse, certanly it will feel that way for you because you don't know what Will happen to you. 

You Conciously die to IT and then Miracle happens. 

See you have this information but I didn't lol. 

Yeah now @Nahm Will with full right say illusion is THAT is not you and yes death is illusion too. 

To know that you are God, yes it is narcissistic and egotistical. Will never be able to accept this. 

[Aakash]

@zeroISinfinity The miracle is that you get to experience more of your own self. 

Yes it’s like I said, it’s not that I worked for it. The divine knowledge just happened to come into my hands by chance. elsewhere to leo, it’s not like I deserved it realistically but I definitely earnt it slightly. The strange loop is leo’s and mode Incompleteness thereon. 

Its not that you are wrong or nahm is right. It’s just that you are both equally wrong as you are right relativity. There is actually no force that can adjudicate relativity except love because that is what it is. Love is the tipping scale which delicately balances how to make a conscious decision. Let me give you an idea of relativity. You could be so loving that you would sit down in the forest in the middle of nowhere and let your pshyical body die. Because everything is already perfect, so what need the change? 

Or you could be a loving person and spread that infinite love however you decide to. 

But ultimately my personal decision is that yes nahm would be right. 

There is a bigger self than you which makes you smaller, but at the same time you are indistinguishable which makes you bigger. They are equal. So the better thing to do is become a proactive god instead of a reactive god. Again equal. It sounds just my personal opinion of the situation and you are allowed to exercise your own expression of love which is zeroisonfinity and infinityiszero

Edited August 1, 2019 by Aakash

[Mulky]

I remember this guy I met while working at a school.  After Knowing him for a while, one day, he told me how tired he was.  Then he said, "im either going to take a nap, or do this thing i do where I just sit there and dont think or do anything for a few hours.  I thought it was pretty funny, he didnt even know what he was doing or anything.

[archi]

10 hours ago, Leo Gura said:

Don't get me wrong, I still like Shinzen as a teacher. Nothing I say here is meant to attack or undermine the work of Shinzen or Ralston or whoever. I'm just adding some extra wrinkles to it.

I don't know much about him. You'd have to ask him what he's become conscious of.

Sure, I understand, Shinzen is Great, Ralston is Great, you re too and many others. 

[Ar_Senses]

11 hours ago, Leo Gura said:

Generally speaking good techniques to try are all the ones I've shared in the past:

• Meditation
• Self-inquiry
• Strong determination sitting
• Contemplation
• Psychedelics
• Vipassana retreats
• Solo retreats
• Yoga
• Dark room retreats
• Shamanic breathing
• Etc.

These are well-worn methods that work for many people.

And in the end, you gotta wonder, is there any other option? Those are the best techniques mankind has developed so far. So you might as well start tinkering around with them. With practice you should find whatever works best for you.

@Leo Gura How can I understand that a technique is working effectively?

It’s hard to understand it, especially in my 24, while I have building up my foundations like escaping wage slavery, sales and marketing, life purpose, success, nutrition, relationships, health and fitness.

I don’t want to snooze Spiritually till I’ll become fully independent. Plus it’s hardly wired with my Life Purpose.

What are the signs of the real benefits from the practices? To which “symptoms” should I pay attention the most?

How can I get some glimpses at the short-run, that I’m not wasting my time but growing and will get the results while doing some of the techniques?

• Shamanic Breathing

• “Do nothing” meditation

• Psychedelics

• Journaling

• Contemplation

• Self-inquiry 

• Yoga

• Solo retreat

• Strong determination sitting

Thanks in advance.

[Leo Gura]

@Ar_Senses Well, mystical experiences and samadhi states are a clear sign of results. I'm not saying that's the end, but the beginning.

If you don't what a mystical experience or a samadhi state is, take a psychedelic and they will quickly show you. Then try to get similar results via other methods.

If you have meditated for a few years but never had a mystical experience or samadhi, then you aren't doing it properly or you need to find a better method.

Take a psychedic to see how much you're meditation is missing.

[lmfao]

If there were gurus who were spitiually talented, I think J. Krishnamurti would be one. He makes the process of becoming aware sound so simple and easy. I get the sense he hasn't had to work extremely hard as some other masters/gurus. I could be wrong. 

I found his way of talking strange sometimes, I find it dry. Perhaps he could just be very masculine. I'm in love the way both he and Alan Watts talk about time. Looking at the illusion of time has always been amazing to me. I don't know what time is, how it is flux could exist if time doesn't exist. I don't know whether flux even exists. 

 

Edited August 1, 2019 by lmfao

[electroBeam]

17 minutes ago, Leo Gura said:

@Ar_Senses Well, mystical experiences and samadhi states are a clear sign of results. I'm not saying that's the end, but the beginning.

If you don't what a mystical experience or a samadhi state is, take a psychedelic and they will quickly show you. Then try to get similar results via other methods.

If you have meditated for a few years but never had a mystical experience or samadhi, then you aren't doing it properly or you need to find a better method.

Take a psychedic to see how much you're meditation is missing.

1. What is a mystical state? Is feeling a vibratory, buzzing, flowing, ecstasy energy in your spine or head a mystical state? Or is it just feelings? What about the sensation that ordinary consciousness is 'fading away' or the external world is fading away, much like when you fall asleep, except this time it's happening while you are highly alert? Have you experienced these before? Do they have a name?

2. Are you suppose to feel these sort of sensations while you meditate every time? Do you ever get phenomena where on some days you don't feel anything? Is this a sign that on that particular day you performed the technique slobby? Does this mean you should try to do the technique again until you get the mystical state? Sometimes I do a practice and I will get little or no feeling of a non ordinary state of consciousness and it really demotivates me.

3. In your spiritual practices, have you ever noticed that the mystical states are actually not the same each day and progressively change form day by day? Is this ok and What's suppose to happen? for example you feel heaps of kundalini one day, the next day you feel immense calmness and stillness, then next day it's a massive vibratory explosion of ecstasy. Is this suppose to happen? Possibly do I need to go back to the technique's specification and see if this is what the creator of the technique intended?

Edited August 1, 2019 by electroBeam