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SunnyNewDay

Proceeding with psychadelics after a bad/dangerous trip

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Posted (edited)

 This is a question mostly about safety and looking for advice how to proceed forward.

A couple weeks ago I did ayahuasca (4 ceremony) which changed my life but also was incredibly frightening and hard. I had some bad trips and at one point felt suicidal and was going through absolute hell. like I lost control of myself and my mind and experienced psychosis and delusions and a ton of dark negative thoughts and feelings. Hard to describe it really. A facilitator had to calm me down and hold me down some during one ceremony. After the ceremony the facilitator and shaman did not seem to deter me from psychadelics and say it was unsafe for me but instead left it to my own discretion and said I could probably need more in the future and to be patient and experience the beauty of the process. I still left feeling a little angry at them like something physically worse could of happened and there should of been more safety precautions but then again I'm a newbie here and they have done this hundreds of times. I asked them how bad my trip was and they said they've experienced much much worse during ceremony. 

I'm feeling MUCH better after this whole experience and can see the gifts I've gotten from it and that I am a good person wanting to be honest and true to himself for himself and others. I feel this in my heart and actually can say this whole thing has changed my life for the better but I've never more resonated with the phrase "with great power comes great responsibility." It's a little overwhelming realizing your potential and then from there being tasked to be good going forward. I still have a lot of fear and some delusional feelings and probably more issues and darkness underneath. I'm thinking of talking to a therapist some and getting comfortable with the idea opening up in this way.

Anyways a friend of mine has mushrooms and I'm thinking of giving it a try but I'm afraid of blacking out and going psychotic and being physically dangerous to myself and others. I'm wondering how I should approach this opportunity. What dosage? How do I know I'm ready to try other psychedelics outside a ceremonial setting?

Edited by SunnyNewDay

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@SunnyNewDay I think mushrooms would be the worst psychedelic for you to take at the moment. If you feel ready I'd say 1,5-2 grams tops. Only you can know if you are ready to try psychs again. You gotta try and be honest with yourself. Is it egoic fear that is hindering you or is it something authentic in you that says you need more processing? It might not be a bad idea to process your experience, even for some months. 

I've done 8 aya ceremonies so far. And I've seen and heard people go through bad bad shit, but they always bounce back and I see them the next ceremony stronger and wiser. We humans are resilient creatures, we can take more shit than we give ourselves credit for.

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5 hours ago, SunnyNewDay said:

I'm thinking of talking to a therapist some and getting comfortable with the idea opening up in this way.

@SunnyNewDay  You'll be fine. You've uncovered a lot in a short amount of time. Intergration is key. Maybe @winterknight can be of help.

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Cermonial settings are less than ideal because dosage is unknown and the environment is chaotic.

Trip at home on small doses and it will be good.

Do 10-20 low dose trips to get yourself grounded and comfortable in the psychedelic space.


"Be melting snow. Wash yourself of yourself." -- Rumi

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Posted (edited)

28 minutes ago, Leo Gura said:

Cermonial settings are less than ideal because dosage is unknown and the environment is chaotic.

Trip at home on small doses and it will be good.

Do 10-20 low dose trips to get yourself grounded and comfortable in the psychedelic space.

I'm 50/50 on the ceremony setting.

The shaman had a tiny glass cup which seemed to be the standard measuring tool for dosages so while the exact numeric dosage may have been unknown to me there still is some indication of the amount taken. I know psychedelics can be approached like chemistry or art/baking a cake where exact dosage of the ingredients may/may not be important for the trip. There is always risk in taking a new substance. 

The environment is chaotic as well but in that I really resonated with the aspect that we were in this together as a team and seeing everyone having their own issues was comforting and gave me a lot of strength to continue on. Also having some people there to help me through is something I think was good since being alone could be incredibly frightening (not sure). I liked the collective aspect to this tradition but I can also see some of the limitations. I would be open to private ceremonies. 

These were small ceremony, only 5 people taking the medicine. I would not want to do a big one ever where apparently there are 20+ people.

I'm conflicted because I want to experiment on my own but I think having a trip sitter / facilitator there is important for me until I'm comfortable in the psychedelic space. 

Edited by SunnyNewDay

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1 hour ago, Esoteric said:

@SunnyNewDay I think mushrooms would be the worst psychedelic for you to take at the moment. If you feel ready I'd say 1,5-2 grams tops. Only you can know if you are ready to try psychs again. You gotta try and be honest with yourself. Is it egoic fear that is hindering you or is it something authentic in you that says you need more processing? It might not be a bad idea to process your experience, even for some months. 

I've done 8 aya ceremonies so far. And I've seen and heard people go through bad bad shit, but they always bounce back and I see them the next ceremony stronger and wiser. We humans are resilient creatures, we can take more shit than we give ourselves credit for.

Why do you think so? 

To be honest it's both actually. It's egoic fear and I think something that wants me to process what I've been through already and just focus on my daily life. I also have authentic motivation to try more that wants to have fun and move on and not be so fearful and live by where the rubber meets the road that if I've grown then it's time to act grown, take more risks, and not be driven by my shadow and fear. 

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@SunnyNewDay

1) People interfere with tripping, even if it's just 1 or 2.

2) The shaman's medicine doesn't have standardized potency and he has no idea how tolerant you are. He does not have the time to gradually test doses on you to find your sweet spot. But at home you can (and should) do just that.

I'm not surprised at all that some people go to a shaman and freak out. Because you took way too big a dose too fast.

Gradual dosing is KEY in this work. It's very easy to overwhelm yourself and scare yourself off from psychedelics forever. It's like raising a child. You don't expose a 5 year old child to the entire adult world in one shot. You have to gradually ease him into it, otherwise he will freak out and develop a pathology. You wouldn't show a 5 year old child hardcore rape porn or videos of terrorist beheadings. That would obviously traumatize him. This is what's happening to you when you dose too high.

The mind of God can be a terrifying thing to those who are inexperienced with navigating it. Because it is so powerful. Remember, this mind is responsible for creating the entire universe. So yeah, expect it to be unbelievably, frighteningly powerful. It takes great maturity and purity of heart to explore all its nooks and crannies. It is like exploring the mind of a madman. You have to be slightly mad to want to do it.


"Be melting snow. Wash yourself of yourself." -- Rumi

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2 minutes ago, SunnyNewDay said:

Why do you think so? 

To be honest it's both actually. It's egoic fear and I think something that wants me to process what I've been through already and just focus on my daily life. I also have authentic motivation to try more that wants to have fun and move on and not be so fearful and live by where the rubber meets the road that if I've grown then it's time to act grown, take more risks, and not be driven by my shadow and fear. 

@SunnyNewDay Cause mushrooms especially can be chaotic and unpredictable. But if you take a small dose, it should be fine.

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Posted (edited)

21 minutes ago, Leo Gura said:

@SunnyNewDay

1) People interfere with tripping, even if it's just 1 or 2.

2) The shaman's medicine doesn't have standardized potency and he has no idea how tolerant you are. He does not have the time to gradually test doses on you to find your sweet spot. But at home you can (and should) do just that.

I'm not surprised at all that some people go to a shaman and freak out. Because you took way too big a dose too fast.

Gradual dosing is KEY in this work. It's very easy to overwhelm yourself and scare yourself off from psychedelics forever. It's like raising a child. You don't expose a 5 year old child to the entire adult world in one shot. You have to gradually ease him into it, otherwise he will freak out and develop a pathology. You wouldn't show a 5 year old child hardcore rape porn or videos of terrorist beheadings. That would obviously traumatize him. This is what's happening to you when you dose too high.

The mind of God can be a terrifying thing to those who are inexperienced with navigating it. Because it is so powerful. Remember, this mind is responsible for creating the entire universe. So yeah, expect it to be unbelievably, frighteningly powerful. It takes great maturity and purity of heart to explore all its nooks and crannies. It is like exploring the mind of a madman.

Yeah I do see your point and I do resonate more with a more controlled approach to dosage with this stuff because I can see how powerful it is. It is sort of throwing darts in the dark not doing preliminary trips to get used to a substance before doing a large amount for an 8 hour trip. This experience did far more good than bad for me now that I've had some time to process it but in hindsight I think being more carful with dosage amounts and getting more educated on these substances is important and a good lesson about them. Not entirely sure about doing this stuff alone as a newbie. I can only speak from my experience but having a person there who is more experienced and can talk me through the stuff I'm getting lost in was super helpful. I would not want to do this stuff alone right now. 

 

@Esoteric you know of a good resource for dosing mushrooms?

Edited by SunnyNewDay

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Posted (edited)

11 minutes ago, SunnyNewDay said:

@Esoteric you know of a good resource for dosing mushrooms?

https://erowid.org/plants/mushrooms/mushrooms_dose.shtml

Erowid is great for reading up on psychedelics

Also remember to check out the right psilocybine mushroom you will be taking (if you know). They vary in strength depending on strain, but not that much as far as I am aware

Edited by Esoteric

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@SunnyNewDay 1g of mushrooms is the perfect starting dose. Nothing crazy should happen at such a dose.

Above 2g is where things start to get serious.


"Be melting snow. Wash yourself of yourself." -- Rumi

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15 hours ago, Leo Gura said:

Cermonial settings are less than ideal because dosage is unknown and the environment is chaotic.

So the benefits of a specific retreat set & setting such as healing adventure with a great environment, nature, plenty time to integrate/reflect do not outweight the potential dangers in your opinion ?

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@SunnyNewDay I’ve had several similiar trips, including my 2nd Aya ceremony. They can be deeply profound, yet also a form of trauma to the mind-body. I wouldn’t worry about it, yet I also wouldn’t blow it off. Too many of these trips can injure a mind-body. 

I would be more intentional about creating a familiar safe setting and take light doses - especially around other people - until the mind-body has re-acclimated and is back in the flow. 

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8 hours ago, Lynnel said:

So the benefits of a specific retreat set & setting such as healing adventure with a great environment, nature, plenty time to integrate/reflect do not outweight the potential dangers in your opinion ?

They could, but it's a dicey affair. It all depends on exact circumstances and your personal preparedness.

I still think it's better than sitting on your couch all day watching YT videos.


"Be melting snow. Wash yourself of yourself." -- Rumi

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21 hours ago, Lynnel said:

So the benefits of a specific retreat set & setting such as healing adventure with a great environment, nature, plenty time to integrate/reflect do not outweight the potential dangers in your opinion ?

 

12 hours ago, Leo Gura said:

They could, but it's a dicey affair. It all depends on exact circumstances and your personal preparedness.

I still think it's better than sitting on your couch all day watching YT videos.

I can only speak from my own experience with this seminar but part of me feels a little untrusting of the facilitators and their set up. Not that I think they are trying to do bad or are intentionally negligent but that this stuff is super powerful and bringing it out of the jungle requires a bit more than this sort of underground cowboy operation they have going, which is the case with all Aya in the EU. Dangerous stuff could happen (that which I don't know, just worried a bit from the one or two news stories I've seen). None of this stuff is regulated in the EU countries it's legal in. Then again to some degree I also feel this is me wanting to direct and blame the bad experience on them. They have been doing this a long time and have a good reputation so a lot of my worrying is me and I wasn't fully familiar with the whole process. It was a case of unknown unknowns, things I didn't know I didn't know about the process. I've bounced back really well and can see how my consciousness has been raised and the benefits I've gotten from the experience so it really is a mixed bag of good, bad, and confusion. Negative emotions still come up though but that was the case before doing Aya. They feel more intense and expansive now whereas before I was kinda numb to them. I wouldn't go back and wish I didn't do this but I think that is the nature of going deep and trying to resolve things. You go deep, old questions are answered and resolved, new questions arise along with new issues to work through. I don't know how I could have prepared any more for this. I followed the diet pretty well and was in a really stable place before going. 

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Posted (edited)

Small dose + Meditation = Higher dose :D

Cacao also works direct your experience in a more positive direction as it nourishes your brain with so many chemicals and body with nutrients especially high in magnesium you will naturally feel more centered and wired and your brain will have sufficient energy to process whats happening.

Note: It also will amplify the psychedelic so keep the dosage around 7 - 14g cacao block/paste with some raw honey and cayenne pepper. I  either boil in water or plant-milk.

I personally find mushrooms most healing because they show you what you "need" to see/experience.

All the best!

Edited by pluto

B R E A T H E

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@SunnyNewDay I agree. I take Aya in the EU aswell. The reason I do them is because it is not much of an investment to go there. The shamans mean well, but leaves a lot to be desired. Personally I don't like to take it with other people. That's why I am investigating the possibilities of brewing it myself and taking it in the comfort of my own place. The people there are usually nice, what bothers me more is the shit you gotta do besides just taking the medicine, like having a pipe ceremony and stuff like that. The last one was a san pedro ceremony and I was going deep, and I was just laying there having an introspective moment and all of a sudden we are supposed to go out and have a fire ceremony holding hands.. So that's when I really got motivated to wanting to work with those plant medicines solo. Because they are amazing.

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46 minutes ago, Esoteric said:

@SunnyNewDay I agree. I take Aya in the EU aswell. The reason I do them is because it is not much of an investment to go there. The shamans mean well, but leaves a lot to be desired. Personally I don't like to take it with other people. That's why I am investigating the possibilities of brewing it myself and taking it in the comfort of my own place. The people there are usually nice, what bothers me more is the shit you gotta do besides just taking the medicine, like having a pipe ceremony and stuff like that. The last one was a san pedro ceremony and I was going deep, and I was just laying there having an introspective moment and all of a sudden we are supposed to go out and have a fire ceremony holding hands.. So that's when I really got motivated to wanting to work with those plant medicines solo. Because they are amazing.

I'm just worried about 2 things 

A) am I ready to work with these substances alone?

B) what to do in case of an emergency or mental breakdown. 

I am not diagnosed with nor ever experienced a true mental breakdown of sorts outside of psychadelics (which is gone after coming down) nor have bi polar, schizophrenia or some debilitating personality disorder.

I have a tremendous amount of worry and fear though that I project into my future, mostly in irrational ways so I'm just not sure if that's a barrel of gasoline with psychadelics being the lighter

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