SFRL

Getting asked for money by homeless people

29 posts in this topic

@XYZ Oh man to try to make a distinction between survival and consciousness. I'd look into that and how they relate to each other. It does so way more than you think. 

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How stage red deals with homeless people: Enslave, deport or slaughter them. They are the enemy, undesirable subhumans that we in power are superior to.

How stage blue deals with homeless people: Put them to work, convert them to our religion and have them serve the church/organization. They are our fellow citizens we must look after.

How stage orange deals with homeless people: Ignore them, they are the losers of capitalism, lazy bums, they deserve it, let them be as long as it's not in my back yard. They should have to work like everyone else not be supported by our tax dollars.

How stage green deals with homeless people: They are victims we must have empathy and compassion for, give them food and build housing for them, or let them stay on the street if they want, keep raising taxes and giving them more stuff, consider them residents of our community. Pathological altruism.

These are all band-aid approaches that backfire badly on the homeless and everyone else. I'm brainstorming stage yellow solutions, of which dealing with homeless colonization of cities and helping people already homeless is just the tip of the iceberg. The entire political and economic system would need to be revised so that I doesn't make people homeless in the first place.

@Emerald

Humbling experiences feel good actually, helps me stay grounded and not overconfident in the ego self. Don't think I'm being cocky or arrogant, just pointing out what seems obvious to me as well as acknowledging my own biases. It is difficult for me to care about an obviously homeless person as an individual when they are everywhere and I can't stand the odor, or any strong foul BO in general. Someone loitering outside a store asking for change is just beggar #5839 to me.

@Shadowraix

I don't disagree. Survival and consciousness heavily interrelate. I remember falling into that same duality trap before. But in general a society has to address survival concerns like homelessness, malnutrition, wage slavery, wealth inequality and healthcare before there can be large-scale raising of consciousness. Unmet survival needs tend to keep people stuck in ego mind. I can try to raise my own consciousness regardless of unmet survival needs but can't reasonably expect people who'se lives mainly consist of struggling to keep existing to give any thought to it.

Though I am really sick of people who call themselves high consciousness and spiritual calling for open borders in America and for California to welcome in homeless people and refugees from everywhere, when we can't even take care of our own. Shit is out of control and no one seems to have a practical solution.

Edited by XYZ

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It usually feels good to give away. However, sometimes it might feel bad.

Some people are truly in need, and some are making business out of begging. The latter might surprise you, they may be richer than you are O.o

How I feel is my compass.

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8 hours ago, Keyhole said:

@XYZ What I disagree with is moving them out of the cities - I don't trust that people will keep their best interests in mind if they can't see them.  

When you try to do that in the city it ends up being over crowded, as well as in drawing thousands of street homeless around the area who take the handouts, but continue to live/piss/shit on the street and beg.

In more remote areas there is open land to build the necessary infrastructure, both to help homeless and relieve urban centers of their burden. NGOs would be allowed to observe such facilities.

8 hours ago, Keyhole said:

My biggest fear is that the system would start to take on a project like this, and then abandon it somewhere in the middle stage, thus leaving a bunch of people essentially corralled in one impoverished area.

I think this explains why so many such areas exist in the former USSR.

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Why would you start moving people around like cattle? 

I think the obvious answer would be to provide them jobs, housing, education, healthcare, state financial support, etc. 

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I just give them what I can. Most of the time I give them something, sometimes I have some snacks in my car just for them. If I have more, I give more. 

I don't care about anything besides the fact that there is suffering in front of me, a human being like me in a shitty situation and I can do something to ease their pain for a moment. 

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I've had homeless people ask me for money before.

I've watched them ask other people for money too. They even asked a McDonald's employee behind the counter for money too.

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@SFRL 

Both to isolate the plague, relieving cities of the burden of homeless invasion, and to put them in a place where they can be monitored and rehabilitated. You might feel differently if you encounter hundreds or thousands of homeless every day, who've migrated to your city to leech off the public services and beg for money. Most of these people obviously can't take care of themselves, and the problem won't be stopped by throwing money at it. Needs to be contained and dealt with systematically.

People don't want them pissing, shitting, begging and sleeping on the streets where they live and work. Here in LA county residents and business owners are taking it upon themselves to construct barriers around buildings and sidewalks to keep the filth away. But the homeless themselves may not have anywhere to go or means of getting there, hence the need for 'domestic refugee' centers the funnel them off the streets and give them sleeping accommodation, mental evaluation and other needed services. 

Two other perspectives I will acknowledge though:

-The people living on the street may see it as the least worst option for them. After all, if any help they receive from the government would require them to become sober and all they'd have to look forward to is wage slavery, sleeping outside, begging, doing drugs and alcohol feels about as good as it gets. This is why I'd support unconditional aid for homeless people, but still want such aid to be provided in ways that discourage homeless migration and clean up the streets formerly colonized by hobo tents, piles of trash and human waste.

-If I were to become homeless myself, or more immediately in danger of becoming so, I would want to be able to use local services offered to get me a place to sleep and them find me place to live, income opportunities and other means provided to me. At present though, all such systems here are completely overwhelmed, most the homeless who came to my locality from elsewhere, and priority is given based on how long someone had been homeless, not having been a resident of the city the service is based, or ability to be self-sufficient once provided basic necessities. From this self-concerned perspective, I see homeless as invaders creating public nuisance and unjustly taking up resources.

In a worst case scenario, if I ever found myself about to be broke and homeless, rather than find some shelter full of people I can't stand the sight and smell of, I'd call a suicide helpline and threaten to kms unless they can arrange for me to be directly provided with a safe and comfortable place to live. So while I can empathize impersonally with street bums I see, personally I'd rather die than be in their shoes, and couldn't being myself to hold out a cup and beg random passers-by for money. 

Not to mention, it's been revealed that some needy and desperate looking beggars found in upscale touristy areas are actually faking it, and end up making more money than if they worked.

Edited by XYZ

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On 7/7/2019 at 8:52 PM, SFRL said:

What's your policy on giving money to homeless people? 

Somehow I always attract homeless people/people in trouble asking me for money. It has always been that way. 

Lately it seems extra bad. But damn I already gave away 20 bucks today. And half a pack of cigarettes. 

And it has been a trend lately. 

I have gone through a rough few years lately and I am in a much better place now. I also feel like I am having a lot more liberal political shift lately. So I feel like helping people out when I see they are in need now I am doing good for myself. 

But it seems to be written on my forehead now. 

How do you go about these things?

Most homeless who ask me for money give me some bullshit about needing a bus pass to a nearby town etc, I lie and say I only have my credit card when in reality I have plenty of money.  I usually only give to the ones who are much milder in how they ask, or maybe feel embarrassed about it, I dont recognize them as one of the homeless people who have been around my area for years.  Usually people who I think are interested in using my money in a way that benefits them and gets them out of homelessness.  But there are some people who seem only interested and only know homelessness, you could give them a million dollars and they'd be homeless in a year again, I dont give people who for whatever reason  I believe fall in this category.  It's almost like giving these people money is allowing them to be homeless and live off donations more so than helping them get out of homelessness


Comprehensive list of techniques: https://sites.google.com/site/psychospiritualtools/Home/meditation-practices

I appreciate criticism!  Be as critical/nitpicky as you like and don't hold your blows

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