Preetom

Mapping Out Leo's Psychedelic Insights Within Vedantic Perspective

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@Mikael89 Also, if you make the distinction, real and unreal, is that your direct experience, or belief?  If so, can you share...what was it like, your direct experience of unreal? How did you know it was unreal, how did you arrive at that for yourself?

  


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1 minute ago, Nahm said:

@Mikael89 Also, if you make the distinction, real and unreal, is that your direct experience, or belief?  If so, can you share...what was it like, your direct experience of unreal? How did you know it was unreal, how did you arrive at that for yourself?

  

Just like you know your own existence, similarly you know what is real and what is unreal when this discrimination is applied.

Select any object(gross or subtle/external or internal) in your experience. Now ask yourself this question and see what it reveals.

Am I aware of this object or is this object aware of I?

There ya go pal 9_9


''Not this...

Not this...

PLEASE...Not this...''

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5 minutes ago, Preetom said:

Just like you know your own existence, similarly you know what is real and what is unreal when this discrimination is applied.

Select any object(gross or subtle/external or internal) in your experience. Now ask yourself this question and see what it reveals.

Am I aware of this object or is this object aware of I?

There ya go pal 9_9

What about from you though, versus “you know....”. It’s possible that is a write off, a way to skirt.   

I’ve never experience unreal.  What was unreal like, experientially?  Or is that a duality / belief?

How are you “aware of an object”? Do you mean you are aware of seeing, hearing, etc?   

Can you explain your direct experience of an object, which is unreal?

Also what is the experience of “an object aware of I” ? 


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Guys let's back up a bit.

You can become conscious that the wave is both not the ocean and the ocean simultaneously.  That is Oneness.

Oneness divides itself so that distinctions may be made.  And you can view the wave as separate from the ocean.  But simultaneously it is still the ocean.

Oneness is an Absolute that you can become directly conscious of when awakening

What is being missed here is that the wave or the world created by brahman - when it negates itself it collapses back into itself - collapses back into Brahman.  Therefore it always was Brahman even as it was being only world (or the wave if you use the wave/ocean analogy which is a good one)  

The Vendantic perspective seems to not close the Oneness gap in some weird way because when Brahman creates the world it then splits it off as something separate that now is no longer Brahman.   

Again becoming the Absolute will reveal that all is One so the the world, while separate is still Brahman and upon collapse will extract itself from Brahman leaving only Brahman.

It is splitting hairs but its an important realization to make.  Because Oneness is always Oneness even while it is dividing itself.

 

 

Edited by Inliytened1

 

Wisdom.  Truth.  Love.

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7 minutes ago, Mikael89 said:

Well, I'm following a teaching, a teaching which makes sense to me.

What about scrutinizing your direct experience, rather than accepting the words of another, which you yourself are saying is not real? Are you not simply establishing that the teaching you are following is not real?


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@Inliytened1 Is the division of Oneness your experience? Could you describe it, specifically? Did you witness the division? Maybe experience doing the dividing your self? 


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@Nahm you experience it as God when you Awaken.

There is no inllytened1 that is experiencing it because inlytened1 is the wave not the ocean.

You must BECOME the ocean or Brahman to become directly aware of it.


 

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@Mikael89 yes, but i'm not aware i'm Brahman until I awaken.   And that's not what Anna1 was saying.  She is saying the world was created by Brahman and so Brahman is the world but the world isn't Brahman.  Yes that's true in one sense, but it is also still Brahman simultaneously.  It is the world on TOP of Brahman.  Form is on top of formlessness, co-opting formlessness.  When it collapses it is only formlessness or Brahman.

The Vendantic perspective doesn't acknowledge this - seemingly -

And you can become direclty conscious of this AS GOd as an Absolute.

 

There is no "leo's teachings" or Vedantic Teachings"  it Just IS.

 

Edited by Inliytened1

 

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Okay I don't understand the first sentence.

6 minutes ago, Nahm said:

I’ve never experience unreal.  What was unreal like, experientially?  Or is that a duality / belief?

How are you “aware of an object”? Do you mean you are aware of seeing, hearing, etc?   

Can you explain your direct experience of an object, which is unreal?

By being aware of an object, I mean noticing any experience whatsoever. And really speaking, one cannot 'experience' the unreal because unreal is non-existent. If it was really real and substantial, then it would be experienced, scrutinized. Upon scrutiny the unreal becomes non existent and on the other hand upon scrutiny Consciousness starts being more prominent and solid.

The point of vedantic discrimination is to appreciate a very important distinction. We tend to impress 'reality' upon objects or experiences. Discrimination shows that it's not the 'thing' that has reality, but its Brahman/existence which is the sole reality. To correct this core flaw, discrimination is absolutely essential.

If you've realized Brahman, in other words if the mode of knowing/experiencing things has evaporated as non existent, then you neither need discrimination nor more brahman talks. Because at that point, the thing that was discriminating is out of the system as well.

18 minutes ago, Nahm said:

Also what is the experience of “an object aware of I” ? 

Exactly. You are supposed to intuitively see what is the source of the sense of reality, not analyzing and breaking down the grammar of the question.

19 minutes ago, Inliytened1 said:

Guys let's back up a bit.

You can become conscious that the wave is both not the ocean and the ocean simultaneously.  That is Oneness.

Oneness divides itself so that distinctions may be made.  And you can view the wave as separate from the ocean.  But simultaneously it is still the ocean.

Oneness is an Absolute that you can become directly conscious of when awakening

What is being missed here is that the wave or the world created by brahman - when it negatives itself it collapses back into itself - collapses back into Brahman.  Therefore it always was Brahman even as it was being only world (or the wave if you use the wave/ocean analogy which is a good one)  

The Vendantic perspective seems to not close the Oneness gap in some weird way because when Brahman creates the world it then splits it off as something separate that now is no longer Brahman.   

Again becoming the Absolute will reveal that all is One so the the world, while separate is still Brahman and upon collapse will extract itself from Brahman leaving only Brahman.

It is splitting hairs but its an important realization to make.  Because Oneness is always Oneness even while it is dividing itself.

 The wave/ocean is a poor analogy to appreciate the distinction between real and unreal. A more suitable analogy is to see the wave/ocean as unreal and the water as real.

Whether its a wave or ocean or spray or steam, the reality is H2O


''Not this...

Not this...

PLEASE...Not this...''

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6 minutes ago, Inliytened1 said:

@Nahm you experience it as God when you Awaken.

There is no inllytened1 that is experiencing it because inlytened1 is the wave not the ocean.

You must BECOME the ocean or Brahman to become directly aware of it.

Can you say anything at all about your experience of the division of Oneness?

 


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6 minutes ago, Mikael89 said:

That part is included in the teaching.

Right, the teaching which you are saying is “not real” though. Can you explain this experience of unreal?

 

4 minutes ago, Inliytened1 said:

the world isn't Brahman.  Yes that's true in one sense,

In what specific sense have experienced this division of Oneness?


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@Preetom You keep deflecting onto me though. You’re claiming this unreal, and this non existence. I’m simply asking if you experienced these, and if so, to share the experience. I’ve not experienced unreal nor non existence, so it’s just interesting to hear someone say this. 


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11 minutes ago, Inliytened1 said:

@Mikael89 yes, but i'm not aware i'm Brahman until I awaken.   And that's not what Anna1 was saying.  She is saying the world was created by Brahman and so Brahman is the world but the world isn't Brahman.  Yes that's true in one sense, but it is also still Brahman simultaneously.  It is the world on TOP of Brahman.  Form is on top of formlessness, co-opting formlessness.  When it collapses it is only formlessness or Brahman.

The Vendantic perspective doesn't acknowledge this - seemingly -

And you can become direclty conscious of this AS GOd as an Absolute.

There is no "leo's teachings" or Vedantic Teachings"  it Just IS.

Anna1 never said the world was created by Brahman. Anyone who understands vedanta would make no such claim.

You are talking about panpsychism here where God and it's creation are one and the same thing. But Vedanta doesn't teach that doctrine.

That's why it is being said over and over again not jump to conclusions without understanding these fine distinctions. Vedanta is all about splitting hairs and I hope you can appreciate the bright side of it, considering how easily things can be misunderstood and corrupted. There is probably not a single doubt or objection that hasn't been raised and resolved in Vedanta and it encourages such reasoning and questioning, in fact it's 2nd vital part of the 3 step process

Edited by Preetom

''Not this...

Not this...

PLEASE...Not this...''

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@Mikael89 Your life and the entiire universe is not separate from consciousness unless you view as separate.

It's all consciousness.  When you dissolve the form of consciousness you only have the formlessness.  All is contained in ONE.  The form is split but one simulatenously.

You have to awaken to understand this. 


 

Wisdom.  Truth.  Love.

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On 6/23/2019 at 7:52 PM, Anna1 said:

 

Ok, so, the world IS Brahman, in the sense that it is created out of, permeatated by and within Brahman, but Brahman is not the world, because the world can be negated and Brahman is still there, as it's the substratum of all things, so not dependent upon the world for its existence. 

Recap: The world is Brahman, but Brahman is not the world.

 


 

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OK i realized i had it backwards.

But even so, Brahman is still is the world too...the world is consciousness in the form of form.

It's all One thing.

 


 

Wisdom.  Truth.  Love.

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9 minutes ago, Nahm said:

@Preetom You keep deflecting onto me though. You’re claiming this unreal, and this non existence. I’m simply asking if you experienced these, and if so, to share the experience. I’ve not experienced unreal nor non existence, so it’s just interesting to hear someone say this. 

I am not deflecting to you or anyone, neither to myself. Sorry if it seemed like that. I am merely trying to explain the teaching here.

You are misunderstanding my point here. Unreality/non-existence/maya is not a thing or experience floating around somewhere which we can hunt and find one day and then write a double PhD thesis on it. In vedanta it is said that don't try to prove the existence of Maya, rather scrutinize Maya and see it's unreality or non-existence.

The flaw is in the lens, the way of seeing. The dilemma is that we impose reality on the unreal(things, experiences) and thus miss the real. The trinity of person-god-world which is unreal seems real to us, while the only reality Brahman seems absent and non-existent and sounds woo woo.

 


''Not this...

Not this...

PLEASE...Not this...''

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