Who's Interested In Conscious Politics?

[Odysseus]

1 hour ago, Norbert Lennartz said:

@Leo Gura

I have no problem at all with the guidelines.

You don't have my education, which you are currently not able to accept. That is actually quite normal.
 

But your education leads you to perceive mine as "nonsense". You've looked at some lost libertarian Youtubes (which I don't even look at, probably they are really bad) without worrying about the work of the outstanding people like Ludwig von Mises and then generalizing your prejudices about me. That is clear enough.

I'm not giving up my best teachers because the Gentleman wants me to.

You can quote Stirner, Nietzsche or other intellectuals as much as you want. Their words don't hold any inherent truths unless you're able to understand and apply them. And let's be true by this point you're unable to do so because of your festering ideological bubble. If you're willing to confront your shadow drop your misinterpreted 'education' and just try to feel into the void. 

[Norbert Lennartz]

Have you noticed that in all your posts the characteristics of propaganda are clearly recognizable?

[Shadowraix]

14 minutes ago, Norbert Lennartz said:

Have you noticed that in all your posts the characteristics of propaganda are clearly recognizable?

Deflecting

[Norbert Lennartz]

So he even admits it at the same time.
 

[Shadowraix]

1 minute ago, Norbert Lennartz said:

So he even admits it at the same time.
 

No. Just pointing out a common tactic to redirect the conversation away from one self. 

[Norbert Lennartz]

@Shadowraix ... so you can drive a sow through the village.

I'm not answerable to anyone here. The subject here is not a personnel matter. That's what you "low quality poster" want to make of it.

[Zigzag Idiot]

A conscious politician would understand the human tendency which manifests most often as an unconscious compulsion, of feeding on negative emotions. 

[Shadowraix]

20 minutes ago, Norbert Lennartz said:

@Shadowraix ... so you can drive a sow through the village.

I'm not answerable to anyone here. The subject here is not a personnel matter. That's what you "low quality poster" want to make of it.

Every discussion is personal. It all starts with a agenda. You would not be preaching your politics if you didn't have one. Everyone must keep awareness of themselves though lest it get nowhere. Which is the point of pointing out many ego tactics. 

It's evident your continuous repetition of the same ideas isn't working yet your approach consists of inconsistencies in your willingness to engage in discussion. It also never adjusts itself to the audience. It really confuses me what your actual agenda is. Because any attempt to teach has failed. 

[Norbert Lennartz]

@Shadowraix

Who has here the ideas of "conscious politics" and "good government", of the social through violence, of the spirit of society, of necessity, of collective ghosts? Scare you. 

[Zigzag Idiot]

30 minutes ago, Zigzag Idiot said:

A conscious politician would understand the human tendency which manifests most often as an unconscious compulsion, of feeding on negative emotions. 

One form of which is spreading fear.

[Shadowraix]

13 minutes ago, Norbert Lennartz said:

@Shadowraix

Who has here the ideas of "conscious politics" and "good government", of the social through violence, of the spirit of society, of necessity, of collective ghosts? Scare you. 

Collective ghosts? What? 

Survival is dirty. Unfortunately we have not transcended the use of violence entirely. Probably won't for a long time. Good government and conscious politics are relative ideals not some absolute truth. But don't forget the necessity of progression when striving for these ideals. We will not transcend government without going through all the stages of government. 

Conscious politics and good government is much more needed right now than optional anarchy. At least if you don't wanna live in the wilderness. Your criticisms of it are fine and all but there is a big difference between practicality and a fantasy of what we want. Be strategic. Promoting conscious politics and good government in a way helps your ideals. 

[ajasatya]

25 minutes ago, Norbert Lennartz said:

Who has here the ideas of "conscious politics" and "good government", of the social through violence, of the spirit of society, of necessity, of collective ghosts?

Nobody and everyone 

"Nobody" because nobody can say "I understand it all already. I have nothing to learn."
"Everyone" because everyone knows something that may add up to the topic.

In conclusion, we're here to build it together. Although I must admit that I haven't understood a single drop of what you may have communicated about politics so far. I am a mathematician and when I want to communicate something about math, I have to light up my communication skills in order to explain my lines of thought in a clear and concise way so that everyone can understand what I say/write. Talking simple is more advanced than talking complex. Also, using metaphors is not always a good idea.

Interesting source: https://zen-of-python.info/

[Aakash]

I can’t believe we haven’t moved on from this ?

it’s simple really 

a) Norbert no one can tell you what to do 

b) Leo can only attempt to stop someone spouting nonsense 

c) good government or ideal government is exactly what you did by stating anarchy, it’s simple the best state of affairs the government can reach 

d) can we continue the discussion properly lol 

[Norbert Lennartz]

@ajasatya

Why did Hilbert's program prove to be unfeasible (not completely nonsensical, but only the overall intention to put mathematics on a purely formal-theoretical basis failed)? 

Because mathematics works with symbols that need a real equivalent. Otherwise they are only dreams, but they represent only dreams, no real things of the world, no being. Mathematics can only be applied to something real, existing. Human actions, for example, are something that is based on something real that exists.
But to write a constitution in which things are written that are purely abstract is a hopeless undertaking to put the whole of social life on a purely formal-theoretical basis. 

The same had already been said about "society".

Just a hint for a mathematician.

[Shadowraix]

@Aakash Just another hitch in the road. It'll pass. 

[Norbert Lennartz]

It is the BASIC EVASION OF THE ESSENTIAL which is the problem of man. This evasion and evasiveness is a part of the deep structure of man. The running away from the exit out of the trap is the result of this structure of man. Man fears and hates the exit from the trap. He guards cruelly against any attempt at finding the exit. This is the great riddle.

Wilhelm Reich

 

[ajasatya]

@Norbert Lennartz We can stay away from constitutions for now and address simpler issues.

Have you heard of the work that has been done in Bhutan? Personally, I find it quite advanced. The government is genuinely involved in providing a better environment for the people based on serious studies about the current needs.

More details:

• http://www.grossnationalhappiness.com/
• https://www.bhutanstudies.org.bt/

This is something that I'd like to study in more depth as soon as possible.

[RichardY]

7 minutes ago, Norbert Lennartz said:

It is the BASIC EVASION OF THE ESSENTIAL which is the problem of man. This evasion and evasiveness is a part of the deep structure of man. The running away from the exit out of the trap is the result of this structure of man. Man fears and hates the exit from the trap. He guards cruelly against any attempt at finding the exit. This is the great riddle.

Wilhelm Reich

 

More psychologising.

[Joseph Maynor]

7 hours ago, Leo Gura said:

The house rules are: BE HERE TO LEARN!

You are being shown advanced things here which are over your head.

I fear you may have to be kicked out cause you're not interested in learning and it's a waste of time dealing with such people.

You said the same thing about me too Leo.  The exact same thing in a private message.  I found it to be hurtful, biased, closed-minded, controlling, and wrong when you said it to me.  Are you here to learn too Leo?  Seems like you really want your perspective reinforced above all else which is a huge trap in this work.  You want everyone to get in line with your perspective.  That's the energy I get from you.  You should celebrate diversity of point of view as a mature teacher.  I would also think you would show more compassion as a mature teacher for different perspectives.  This is why before you venture into Interpersonal Development Work (including Political Work) you need to get Personal Development Work mastered first.  Before you worry about solving political problems, learn how to be a better leader for your community first.  There's an order in doing these things.  You don't become a black belt because you want to, you earn it.

Edited June 10, 2019 by Joseph Maynor

[Norbert Lennartz]

@ajasatya

What is the simplest insight now?
If people can do something with the state, does that mean they couldn't do it without the state?
If they couldn't do it without the state, then people have valued things differently. It was not worth it to them and they decided on something even better.