All thinking is survival

[Norbert Lennartz]

.. Leo said.

Let's debunk.

What is not thinking in the widest sense?

[RichardY]

@Norbert Lennartz If going with the cosmological position of reality, which I do, everything is thinking.(except Satan) The Mind of God. But in order for thinking to occur, something needs to be fixed.

The question is how does your thinking fit in.

To not think at all, is to be anti-teleological, i.e Satan. In the only, and most narrow sense.

Edited May 29, 2019 by RichardY

[Norbert Lennartz]

good answer, thanks

[Truth Addict]

Where does thinking occur?

[Norbert Lennartz]

51 minutes ago, Truth Addict said:

Where does thinking occur?

In that existential realm that forms a thought.

[Truth Addict]

19 minutes ago, Norbert Lennartz said:

In that existential realm that forms a thought.

That is not thinking, and not survival ??

[Inliytened1]

Not thinking is God's highest perspective. 

No perspective.

It is pure formlessness.

Absolute infinity.  Being.  

Nirvana has no dualities it is just pure isness. 

Survival is a duality.

There is no where to go and no where to escape itself.    It just is itself.

It's substance is nothing.

This becomes unstable ultimately and must explode into dualities and form.

Even God has a perspective that is form..in which all is One.  That is infinitely intelligent and indifferent to survival or non-survival..or any dualities.  Just Absolute Love for itself and all its parts.

This is the Godhead.

God's Mind and everything in the Mind is God exploring itself from its own perspective.

Ofcourse the form and the formless are One and the same.

Edited May 29, 2019 by Inliytened1

[Norbert Lennartz]

Great answers here but debunk again.
Is there something in my life that isn't survival?
And since thinking is part of survival, it cannot be thinking.

Now we all return to it, it has something to do with oneness, with the universe, the cosmos, with God. This realization must be there to feel that the duality of life causes suffering. Whether we only feel it consciously or think it consciously, both are still thinking that leads us there. 
Thinking takes place on the level of existence that forms a thought. So we cannot avoid firing back our level of existence by collapsing the thought of the duality of life and then saving it.
But if that is so, then that is survival, isn't it?

[Inliytened1]

I see what you are pointing to..our very existence as the ego is survival.  Every thought we have is survival otherwise we wouldn't be having it..we would be dead.

So you are right from that perspective.

But lets talk about survival strategy not just mere survival.

let's take suffering...that's something we feel but we aren't consciously thinking it.  

But notice that it's not a survival strategy.

Edited May 29, 2019 by Inliytened1

[Norbert Lennartz]

38 minutes ago, Inliytened1 said:

But notice that it's not a survival strategy.

Why not? You feel it. Feeling is thinking.

[Inliytened1]

That would mean that going on a 30 day solo retreat is to move you away from Truth.

See, something that aligns you with Truth can't be a survival strategy.

Because Truth means the dissolution of the Ego.

Doesn't matter if its a thought or an emotion.  It's bringing you closer to Truth / Death.  

Anything that moves you away from Truth is Ego / survival strategy.

Edited May 29, 2019 by Inliytened1

[Leo Gura]

35 minutes ago, Inliytened1 said:

See, something that aligns you with Truth can't be a survival strategy.

It certainly can. People create whole identities out of seeking Truth.

@Norbert Lennartz Do not conflate thinking with feeling. They are distinct. You can feel without thinking.

[Inliytened1]

@Leo Gura yeah but then they're not truly aligning.

[How to be wise]

16 minutes ago, Leo Gura said:

You can feel without thinking.

Feeling is always a product of mind. Perhaps not as thoughts, but as underlying stories or beliefs. There can be no feeling without a story.

[Norbert Lennartz]

Holy crap. I just got back from a 30 minute retreat.
But I think Inliytened1 is right.
Thinking in accordance with Oneness is possible. We even do that all the time here. That is, acting in alignment with Oneness is also possible. Anything else would mean we would be lost.
 

[Inliytened1]

@Norbert Lennartz The hard part is watching out for the ego's traps..falling for your own mind's self deception.  An example of that is what Leo mentioned - letting the ego co-opt your pursuit of Truth and distort it into its own devilry.  So it's tricky work.   

[Norbert Lennartz]

yeah, thank you.

[Shin]

1 hour ago, Leo Gura said:

It certainly can. People create whole identities out of seeking Truth.

@Norbert Lennartz Do not conflate thinking with feeling. They are distinct. You can feel without thinking.

For that identity to stay, you have to bullshit yourself really hard and not do the practices correctly.

Basically, not to anything you preach for !

Very tricky, very sneaky, very funky

[Leo Gura]

2 hours ago, Inliytened1 said:

@Leo Gura yeah but then they're not truly aligning.

That doesn't matter. It's still survival even if it's deluded or wrong.

Someone pursuing enlightenment to escape suffering, for example, is doing it out of survival. Now maybe he happens to finally reach nirvana, where survival is extinguished, but that's distinct from how/why he got there. His motivations were still survival-driven in this case.

2 hours ago, How to be wise said:

Feeling is always a product of mind. Perhaps not as thoughts, but as underlying stories or beliefs. There can be no feeling without a story.

This is false.

[Leo Gura]

39 minutes ago, Shin said:

For that identity to stay, you have to bullshit yourself really hard and not do the practices correctly.

Actually it's the most common scenario that even after an awakening or two the identity still stays.

Very rarely is the identity totally transcended. Usually a spiritual identity is created. This happens even with many gurus, monks, and yogis.

To transcend all identity completely is a very rare and challenging thing.