Hellspeed

Let's be real, Leo Gura has no clue... or does He?

70 posts in this topic

no clue about what? everything? nothing? you can‘t say that! do you have a clue about it? 

it doesn’t mean he has a clue about everything that’s yet to come, as it does not exist yet. would you have any clue without him? ingratitude is not very enlightened - people here tend to integrate the good stuff and critique about the shadow sides, while not getting their ass to start progressing on their own. a lot of people here focus more on others than on themselves, me included. it’s so easy to fingerpoint towards the own black hole.

bitching and moaning about the food after it’s eaten.

6DB95BE6-FEB4-45F4-8A63-8B37DA63522E.jpeg

the thing is learning to cook is completely different to just eating what’s on the plate.

Edited by now is forever

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2 hours ago, Shiva said:

If you feel offended by Leo's direct ways, it doesn't mean that Leo's got an ego problem. It means that you do.

He warned us didn't he? If you don't start doing the practises, you will get left behind and what he's saying will sound crazy and absurd to you, that's what he said a while ago, anticipating reactions like this.

Leo the Omnipotent, Omniscient, and Omnipresent.  It's funny in the tone to which people come to Leo's defense around here.  It's so predictable.  I wish people would deify me too.  This is exactly how cults form, followers form underneath the leader.  Is it the leader manipulating the followers or the followers manipulating the leader?  Who needs who more?  Leo is just another dude.

Edited by Joseph Maynor

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12 minutes ago, Joseph Maynor said:

Leo the Omnipotent, Omniscient, and Omnipresent.  It's funny in the tone to which people come to Leo's defense around here.  It's so predictable.  I wish people would deify me too.  This is exactly how cults form, followers form underneath the leader.  Is it the leader manipulating the followers or the followers manipulating the leader?  Who needs who more?  Leo is just another dude.

yeah and it’s exactly this argument that gives you the right to shit on a plate. just make a life performance of it.

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Oh yes, @Joseph Maynor  said it.

I prefer to offend people and not be followed by the flock, only by those who are not getting offended 9_9

Edited by Hellspeed

... 7 rabbits will live forever.                                                                                                                                                                                                  

 

 

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At last count I think there are 3 similar threads about Leo all near the top of the list in terms of activity.

He will just make an appearance soon and say "it's not about me". I think he would be right. This is about us. Not him. These are all our issues to bear and work through.

What difference does it make about his intentions and beliefs. He is making suggestions. He is inviting people to believe his beliefs. An invitation, that's all it is.

He is the result of his own programme and his own mind. Just one human among 7 billion. 

 

 

 

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It's inevitable in some way that with so many sources and people practicing different techniques and having different world views and value structures, that they are going to clash in some way. I find it amazing that there is a place where people can exchange these aspects, while not burning down the whole place. 

This is what a positive discussion is good for. 

It's already quite cult free since people can't meet up in real life and many people tend to build their own "philosophy" about their spirituality, with so many approaches presented.

Yet, this is what I find this place good for, that different viewpoint and techniques can be discussed also to see how different people use them and see what they achieve, or what effects they have. Also, the metaphysical aspects and the general no bullshit approach and how everything connects back to some source. 

When reading different maps and post from forum members, and the forum not being based on likes anymore. I find it personally a bit easier to distinguish between people who legit make progress and others who are just talking crap. 

That Leo mentions that people "should" follow their own path and craft their unique own path and to not blindly follow his advice, already seems to provoke more skeptical people to be more skeptic about Leo's and their own approach and criticize it while others seem to ride on the vibe. This alone solely prevents dogma since you have contrast, especially people with a larger knowledge base and people practicing different approaches. 

I've been quite good to call out bs, so mostly I observe.... which does not mean I am very far advanced on any path talked about here and in general PD. 

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19 minutes ago, Shiva said:

Who taught you about cults ? ;)

Leo is by no means all-knowing and you're right, he is just another dude. However, if you want to gain any value from any teaching you have to get involved with it and not start complaining once things get a little tough.

Many people start criticising, whining and play victim when things get difficult. To me this is a sneaky way in which the ego tries to avoid doing the work. It really just shows how much you actually need to do it. It's the ego's growth-avoidance mechanism. The ego does this because personal growth is antithetical to ego, so the ego doesn't want you to grow.

It's funny that the biggest critiques on the forum don't just leave. They stay and make posts criticising Leo. I think this is because they are so confused and undeveloped themselves that they need confirmation from other people.

One of the things I dislike about religious people is they tend to be averse to criticism and Leo is encouraging that "aversion to criticism vibe" on the Forum by becoming more overtly religious and dogmatic about his absolute truth and his relationship to God.  I've noticed an increase in the cult-like behaviors from members on the Forum in direct proportion to Leo's religious immersion and overt use of religious language.  There is a cult-like vibe to this Forum now that didn't use to be so strong around here.  I've distinctly noticed it and can feel that energy more and more.  I don't know what can be done about this and I worry about it.  I'd hate to see this place change in that way.  I liked Leo more when he was a true skeptic and less dogmatically attached to his beliefs.  That set a better tone I think for the Forum.

 

Edited by Joseph Maynor

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8 minutes ago, Shiva said:

Again he warned us about this several times.

But it seems that this is inevitable if you put your message out there accessible to the masses. This is why the greatest masters aren't usually on youtube. They are very selective and careful to whom they give what teaching.

At the same time, this is very sad because like that, most people will never hear about these things.

So, as a teacher, you are facing a difficult trade-off:

The more people you want to reach, the higher the chance that people will turn your teaching into a cult or a religion. 

Leo made his decision and I respect that very much because the path he chose is way more difficult than the Master Yoda style of sitting in a secluded place for years and only pass on a teaching if a highly dedicated individual comes along once every 10 years or so.

Leo encourages it by fervently preaching his gospel in religious terms as if it's the absolute truth.  This will cause certain personalities to become more cultish and that will affect the Forum.  

Edited by Joseph Maynor

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@Joseph Maynor It's inevitable when language is used in a religious way that certain people are attracted to it. Who are more blue for instance. Also, being neutral or relative all the time is for me an absolutist thing, or way or thinking.

Seeing Leo's earlier videos and being a lurker it felt heavily orange or secular. 

Now it feels greener with people choosing their "enlightened" one besides Leo to reference to and give credit to and seek advice. People being about love and sending hearts etc.

I don't think there is anything apprehensive about the forum with so many active moods and Leo being active.

For me, it feels more like an upgrade that the forum is not so strongly based on likes etc. Since people have to actually read the post and take the time to figure out which advice is legit. Sure, this is also a disadvantage that there is no immediate reinforcement or feedback to post and having feedback from likes to see if the advice or post provided value, is legit or people like it. (Like StackOverflow or Quora etc.) 

So, it is more for the forum participation itself and the content shared. I mean people from all over the world chime in, it is clear that at one point some cult-like behavior is going to erupt. When the teaching changes. Yet, for me, it shows more a misunderstanding of how people can't perceive of how interconnected all of this is then, cult-like behavior. 


 

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@Joseph Maynor It is great, that you criticize so people are aware. An advocatus diaboli is needed often to further reduced cult-like thinking. 

 

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Yeh I can also feel this strange atmosphere around here, but Leo's teaching style works good for me, I like directness. But I understand that it is not for everyone...

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7 minutes ago, Shiva said:

He also said a while ago that this is going to happen if you don't keep up.

But you gotta appreciate who difficult it is to even talk about these things.

He's trying to communicate the uncommunicateable.

Most advanced teachers don't even dare to try and just let you figure it out yourself, or not... 

I think Leo believes his beliefs, he's not trying to communicate the uncommunicable.  He's preaching very specific "truths" about reality now.  Leo thinks he knows everything about reality now and he's putting himself in a position where he's delivering very certain and specific truths to his audience.  And he specifically said that God told him these truths in his latest video.  That's not trying to communicate the uncommunicable.  That's full-blown preaching religion.  That's no different than going to your Christian or Muslim church and listening to someone tell you what's what about reality in a very specific, dogmatic way.  That's the change in Leo's tone I see.  Leo is not uncertain about anything now.  Like he said, everything is explainable and he's holding himself out there alone as knowing the "one right" answer.  That's a very different kind of thing than we're used to with Leo.  

Edited by Joseph Maynor

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17 minutes ago, Shiva said:

As I said, if you don't get value from it anymore, maybe it's time to try something else.

Oh I'm getting value from it.  There's huge value in seeing people make mistakes.  I'm learning a lot by watching Leo do what he's doing on his path.  I'm learning a lot by seeing how the Forum is being affected by Leo's change in his teaching as well.  I'm always learning.  I'm like a sponge.  Actually, I learn the most from people who are the least like me.  But I'm not gonna keep my mouth shut either about how and why I disagree with someone or something.  I hope this Forum doesn't become too intolerant in that sense.  I see it sort of happening more and more and it concerns me.  The tone of a community flows from the top.  This includes the workplace as well.  Its hard to be pluralistic when you think you hold the absolute truth.  Look at the religions to see that.  It was secularism that brought about the European Enlightenment, the separation of Church and State.  In general Muslim countries don't have the separation of church and state (except for Turkey), and you see how cult-like Muslim countries are.  You have to have a tolerance for and even an encouragement of criticism, and that flows from the top.  I don't see Leo being that guy anymore whose gonna hold that mantle.  Leo wants to be right, that's obvious.  Leo doesn't want to be disagreed with, he thinks he has the absolute truth.

Edited by Joseph Maynor

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11 minutes ago, Joseph Maynor said:

Oh I'm getting value from it.  There's huge value in seeing people make mistakes.  I'm learning a lot by seeing Leo do what he's doing on his path.  I'm learning a lot by seeing how the Forum is being affected by Leo's change in his teaching as well.  I'm always learning.  I'm like sponge.  Actually, I learn the most from people who are the least like me.  But I'm not gonna keep my mouth shut either about how and why I disagree with someone or something.  I hope this Forum doesn't become too intolerant in that sense.  I see it sort of happening more and more and it concerns me.  The tone of a community flows from the top.  This includes the workplace as well.  Its hard to be pluralistic when you think you hold the absolute truth.  Look at the religions to see that.  It was secularism that brought about the European Enlightenment, the separation of Church and State.  In general Muslim countries don't have the separation of church and state (except for Turkey), and you see how cult-like Muslim countries are. 

yeah but leo is not the president... maybe you should be concerned about that much more...

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1 minute ago, now is forever said:

yeah but leo is not the president... maybe you should be concerned about that much more...

I like how people like to tell me what I should be concerned about.  You're cute.  :x

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2 minutes ago, Joseph Maynor said:

I like how people like to tell me what I should be concerned about.  You're cute.  :x

it was just a proposition. i mean you also tell us what we should be concerned about. just because you don’t use the word doesn’t make it a non should.

Edited by now is forever

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4 minutes ago, Shiva said:

@Joseph Maynor Could it be that you are using your criticism as a way to confirm your own beliefs and escape from doing the practises?

And that the more Leo grows, the more you realize how much work you could be doing.

So, your criticism increases proportionally to Leo's growth because by criticising openly on the forum you seek confirmation from other people that Leo is wrong.

And by getting the confirmation, you get certainty that Leo is wrong, which means that you don't have to do any work because Leo is wrong anyways.

No offence, just suggesting a possibility for you to think about here.

I have 13 volumes of Journals, I think I'm doing the work.  You're taking a lot of time criticizing me openly.  You're a bit single-sided in your perception of these matters I think.  No offense.  You're defending Leo, I get it, but there's a difference between being a lawyer and being an openminded inquirer.

Edited by Joseph Maynor

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10 minutes ago, Joseph Maynor said:

I like how people like to tell me what I should be concerned about.  You're cute.  :x

That's 100% pure ego running a mock.

It's not because you're more eloquent that it's not there anymore.

 

Again, 3/4 different people criticising you in a single thread,
And you still think it's everyone else and not you having a problem ?

And having 13 journals doesn't mean anything,
Could be pure monkey mind running a mock trying to look smart.

Edited by Shin

God is love

Whoever lives in love lives in God

And God in them

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The thing is...

If you actually know the Truth, if you have an actual Satori aligned with your life very well, how are you going to plan to communicate it? Obviously, you can't just say it. Just talking is ineffective. It will lead to this:

Non-capisco-image.jpg

Correction! If the other person is friendly and radically open-minded, it will lead to this. :) If not, it may lead to this:

couple_communication_errors_281x309.jpg

:ph34r:

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