Men have a fixed role in society?! Why?

[billiesimon]

I remember @Leo Gura saying in a video about relationships that the primary role of men in society is to have a job.

I don't agree with this, since I believe that men are born to be free and follow their passion and their sense of masculine direction (yang is energetic and purposeful).

At the same time this narrative seems to imply that women and men have different value roles in the job field. Post modernism teaches that this is wrong. Women should provide for society too, and with the same amount of effort. 

What are your thoughts? 

I'd like to hear Leo too

[Key Elements]

You do whatever you can to provide to the best of your abilities regardless of your gender. Emphasizing on the distinctions and categorizations between men and women could lead to black and white thinking.

[Bill W]

I think it's good for men to also follow and explore their femininity. It's easy to forget this or ignore it. Your title says that men have a fixed role, so does that imply you believe this is the case? It makes us sound like robots, straight off the production line! 

[billiesimon]

13 minutes ago, Bill W said:

I think it's good for men to also follow and explore their femininity. It's easy to forget this or ignore it. Your title says that men have a fixed role, so does that imply you believe this is the case? It makes us sound like robots, straight off the production line! 

I clearly said in the post that I don't believe in a fixed role, and I want men to be free to be whatever they want. Even feminine if they want to (in fact I'm also exploring my feminine side). 

[SFRL]

@billiesimon

You can write your own rules. 

An Alpha can do groceries and cook for example. 

My father for example is a very natural Alpha. But is the one that pretty much always cooks. My mom would burn a cup of tea is she could. And she is very feminine. 

[bejapuskas]

@billiesimon  What is in your opinion, a true display of masculinity? Binging Actualized.org videos on the couch? ??

[Commodent]

Society might consider the primary role of men to have a job, but it doesn't mean society is right. You are free to be whoever you want, although it might not be in alignment with the expectations of society.

Personally, I feel like men are more so expected to have good social skills and be well-liked. My parents' generation seems more concerned with jobs and career.

[SFRL]

Actually I can come up with more anecdotal evidence. My mother's grandfather would help my grandmother with the housework a lot. Big family. He would be cooking with an apron on and stuff. That was like in the 1950's. People would comment on it, and he would tell them to mind their own business. I have known that man. He was Alpha. 

Also in college one of my teachers told me a story of a prime minister of Italy in the past. That guy like to cook at home. Then the press asked him if that was not female work. His reply was "anything I do is man stuff". What he meant to say is, because he is a masculine guy whatever he does is masculine, him doing the activity as a masculine man makes it masculine. The activity in itself does not define his masculinity. 

[Shadowraix]

Things didn't pop this way out of nowhere. It derives deeply from who we are and what we do best. This is merely an adaptation of masculine energy. 

You can do what you want obviously. But try to contemplate why men and woman would end up gravitating one way or another. 

It's not a limitation. Just an implementation. 

[SFRL]

1 minute ago, Shadowraix said:

Things didn't pop this way out of nowhere. It derives deeply from who we are and what we do best. This is merely an adaptation of masculine energy. 

You can do what you want obviously. But try to contemplate why men and woman would end up gravitating one way or another. 

It's not a limitation. Just an implementation. 

That's truth as well. 

When my mom needs a car my dad will buy it. She won't even see the thing until it's actually parked in the driveway. This is your car now lol. 

Also their is no way my mom drives the car when they are in the car together. 

Me, I don't like it either when the woman drives the car. 

I won't let my girlfriend carry the heavy grocery bags neither for example.

I will walk my girlfriend to the train station. But that ain't happening the other way around. It's just not natural. 

[Emerald]

2 hours ago, billiesimon said:

I remember @Leo Gura saying in a video about relationships that the primary role of men in society is to have a job.

I don't agree with this, since I believe that men are born to be free and follow their passion and their sense of masculine direction (yang is energetic and purposeful).

At the same time this narrative seems to imply that women and men have different value roles in the job field. Post modernism teaches that this is wrong. Women should provide for society too, and with the same amount of effort. 

What are your thoughts? 

I'd like to hear Leo too

Be careful not to take the societal script around masculinity and femininity as being what they actually are. Masculinity and femininity are subtle energies that imbue all people but are also expressionless in and of themselves. It's just that they inform many expressions, and people collectively notice these energies at play and make thereabout judgment calls about how the energy is being expressed in a given activity.

So, let's take make-up for example, we relate makeup in our society to women and we can perhaps sense a feminine energy around the activity of wearing makeup. But in a different society makeup may be considered masculine by people picking up masculine energy around the activity.

So, don't feel limited in your actions about what's masculine or feminine. And don't try to be masculine... simply try to be as you are and your natural energies will come out more as opposed to being stunted by the ideas of what masculinity entails. And you need to look no further than what you naturally gravitate toward, to find your authentic masculine/feminine signature.

 

[Key Elements]

Just wanted to add to what I said in this thread. Someone told me that 1 in 10 men in California, in the Bay Area, when they become parents, they decide to become homemakers. This does not prove that they're not masculine. I have met a couple in Mountain View, CA where the mom works as a professor at a prestigious university and the dad is a house husband, a stay-at-home-dad, to his 3-yr-old daughter. To me, they decided to be in this situation because his wife made more money than him. Daycare is expensive. It's because of their living circumstances that put them in this situation, not because he's not a man. Besides, the Bay Area in CA is one of the most expensive places in the world to live. You do whatever you can to survive. I do believe that the women who are happy with their work and fully supporting their families as a breadwinner have some idea of their life purpose, and also the men, of course, if they are in that situation.

This couple's situation reminds me of this movie:

(Just remember, movies exaggerate real life situations.) The man in the movie lost his job. So, his wife went back to work as a lawyer, and he decides to convert his house into a daycare with his friend (and their young children) and call it, "Daddy Daycare." What an adventure! In real life, I bet they'll run into legal issues if they're that careless.

[Leo Gura]

@billiesimon When I said that I was speaking in very practical relative terms.

Of course it isn't true in any absolute sense.

But very practically, if you want to be a high value man, you gotta teach yourself to be a provider/boss/value-generator.

Traditionally the man's role is to hunt and bring home the wild game. Not being able to do so will hit your self-esteem. Again, simply on a practical level. We're not talking about enlightenment here. Just advice for average guys, not woke masters.

Teach yourself how to hunt. Not to please the woman or society but to empower yourself. Hunting feels good. Which is why males of our species play first person shooter games. Females don't play such games.

[billiesimon]

12 hours ago, Emerald said:

Be careful not to take the societal script around masculinity and femininity as being what they actually are. Masculinity and femininity are subtle energies that imbue all people but are also expressionless in and of themselves. It's just that they inform many expressions, and people collectively notice these energies at play and make thereabout judgment calls about how the energy is being expressed in a given activity.

So, let's take make-up for example, we relate makeup in our society to women and we can perhaps sense a feminine energy around the activity of wearing makeup. But in a different society makeup may be considered masculine by people picking up masculine energy around the activity.

So, don't feel limited in your actions about what's masculine or feminine. And don't try to be masculine... simply try to be as you are and your natural energies will come out more as opposed to being stunted by the ideas of what masculinity entails. And you need to look no further than what you naturally gravitate toward, to find your authentic masculine/feminine signature.

 

Thanks, helpful reply.

Yes, since I've started studying post modernism I'm becoming very aware of how I have an important female energy and feminine side, along with my main masculine/mental energy.

I asked the question because I didn't understand why men (and women) are not free to be themselves according to society. Masculine energy should be about following your own direction and passion, not about following social constructs and stupid provider roles (the same for the wife role for women). Both masculine and feminine energies are free flowing and fluid, even though in different ways (yang or yin).

It triggers me that society tells me to become a father and a provider, because I want to do whathever the fuck I want, and I believe women are capable of providing for themselves.

[billiesimon]

2 hours ago, Leo Gura said:

@billiesimon When I said that I was speaking in very practical relative terms.

Of course it isn't true in any absolute sense.

But very practically, if you want to be a high value man, you gotta teach yourself to be a provider/boss/value-generator.

Traditionally the man's role is to hunt and bring home the wild game. Not being able to do so will hit your self-esteem. Again, simply on a practical level. We're not talking about enlightenment here. Just advice for average guys, not woke masters.

Teach yourself how to hunt. Not to please the woman or society but to empower yourself. Hunting feels good. Which is why males of our species play first person shooter games. Females don't play such games.

Thanks for clarifying, now I get it 

Yeah, I like being productive, learning and becoming successful in all my passions. Direction and willpower are typical masculine traits and I completely agree with that.

I was just not understanding if your statement was about society or on an absolute Truth level. But now I agree.

[Toby]

15 hours ago, billiesimon said:

I remember @Leo Gura saying in a video about relationships that the primary role of men in society is to have a job.

I don't agree with this, since I believe that men are born to be free and follow their passion and their sense of masculine direction (yang is energetic and purposeful).

At the same time this narrative seems to imply that women and men have different value roles in the job field. Post modernism teaches that this is wrong. Women should provide for society too, and with the same amount of effort. 

What are your thoughts? 

I'd like to hear Leo too

Feminism could have been invented not to free the roles but so that more people are working and pay taxes. Funny that the male role of working, providing, being strong and having no feelings, functioning... is not questioned collectively. Because a man that questions his role probably pays less taxes.

[noip]

19 hours ago, billiesimon said:

What are your thoughts? 

It's everyone's role in society to contribute positively to society. Often that does take on the form of a job, where the work you do feeds into a system that ultimately has practical utility for the mass majority; thus the things you create/produce in some way helps the society you live in or are a part of. Also, having a job means making money and paying taxes, and that money paid then gets spent, which helps cashflow/the economy. A good economy means jobs are available, thus allowing other people ways to contribute positively to society and maintain a standard of living. 

It all sort of feeds back into itself...

Edited May 20, 2019 by noip

[noip]

7 hours ago, Leo Gura said:

Hunting feels good. Which is why males of our species play first person shooter games. Females don't play such games.

I love playing first person shooting games. I had a bad addiction and had to quit cold-turkey.
A friend I made had me play a decade after I quit, and he thinks I've maintained muscle memory. Still managed 3 headshots and wiped out half the team.

Good times.

[RichardY]

Chicks with dicks.

A good economy means resources are available.
 

 

[Hellspeed]

Because the working class of men do the dirty jobs outside and at home.