Enlightenment and Suffering

[Truth Addict]

@zeroISinfinity @Shin @Inliytened1

Actually guys, David is right.

I don't like to admit that, but I have to.

And I'm not joking, I want to become like that.

Edited May 10, 2019 by Truth Addict

[cetus]

31 minutes ago, zeroISinfinity said:

David is too Just he is so blind to his own bullshit(mods notice).

@zeroISinfinity don't worry your being noticed. 

@David Hammond @Inliytened1 Leo verbally warned all of you about the nonduality wars the other day and it hasn't stopped since. 

[zeroISinfinity]

It doesn't matter he will either become enlightened during his lifetime or on death bed it Just doesn't matter at all. Thinking and believing that you are enlightened, becoming aware of breath 24/7 non dual perception, living in the Now is Just not IT. For Truth you full on become it. 

[Inliytened1]

@cetus56 i don't believe i was arguing or fighting with him.  But if someone is self deceived and is going around deceiving others (perhaps even unconsciously) that they can become enlightened in 48 minutes and stating that they themselves can go between God and Ego at will i think needs to be pointed out for the benefit of some of the other people on the forum.  That's all we are trying to do here.

No one is is saying he is a bad guy or anything..we all love him.

Edited May 10, 2019 by Inliytened1

[Truth Addict]

@Inliytened1

He's not deceiving anyone here. He's saying what worked for him, and assuming that it will work for others as well.

I don't know about you and others, but I can clearly see that David is way above me.

And don't get too literal with the 48 minutes claim, he's probably just using that number as humour.

I can clearly see Truth being spoken when he's talking. He's closer to Truth than anyone else I have ever known.

Edited May 10, 2019 by Truth Addict

[zeroISinfinity]

Just now, Truth Addict said:

@Inliytened1

I don't know about you and others, but I can clearly see that David is way above me.

Drop that, nobody is above or beneath you. ❤️

[Truth Addict]

1 minute ago, zeroISinfinity said:

Drop that, nobody is above or beneath you. ❤️

In terms of Truth and enlightenment, he definitely is above me, way above me.

Edited May 10, 2019 by Truth Addict

[cetus]

3 minutes ago, Inliytened1 said:

No one is is saying he is a bad guy or anything..we all love him.

Try not to kill each other with kindness O'K?  

But seriously it's been going round and round and nothing is going to change. Plus it's distracting and it's also hijacking the OP's thread. That's not fair.

[Inliytened1]

@cetus56 @cetus56 agreed.  I say we take Mandy's advice and all go out into nature for a while

Unfortunately i have to work so i have to wait until later.

[cetus]

5 minutes ago, Inliytened1 said:

I say we take Mandy's advice and all go out into nature for a while

@Inliytened1 I was just about to do the same myself- after a hit or two.

[Shin]

Going for a walk then taunting David ego again ?

[David Hammond]

5 minutes ago, Shin said:

Going for a walk then taunting David ego again ?

✌

[David Hammond]

1 hour ago, Inliytened1 said:

@cetus56 i don't believe i was arguing or fighting with him.  But if someone is self deceived and is going around deceiving others (perhaps even unconsciously) that they can become enlightened in 48 minutes and stating that they themselves can go between God and Ego at will i think needs to be pointed out for the benefit of some of the other people on the forum.  That's all we are trying to do here.

No one is is saying he is a bad guy or anything..we all love him.

@Inliytened1Hi my friend. @cetus56 please let me address this because I think it will be useful? 

You say your ego has to die for you to wake up to yourself, right?

That is the case for either drug experiences or not having enough training in states - which you can earn from a recognized dzogchen lineage holder, or someone respectable in adwiata or a real enlightened one man band (very very hard to find, you won't find it on youtube).

State training which I am talking about is how the Buddah became enlightened. That's a story given to us from the Buddhist science of enlightenment and the Buddahs realization is a science that can be practiced and eventually nirvana can be attained. Permanent enlightenment. 

Enlightenment is also a process if you look at it from a different way. It's called the noble path. I speak of that a lot. But as far as being nothingness having an ego as opposed to being an ego with a memorable non dual experience, the difference is permanent enlightenment and intellectual understanding. Bodhi is intellect, and in a Buddah the bodhi is also awakened. That's because intellect is needed in being able to see through what causes separation.

Without the development of bodhi you are basically pissing in the wind with your practice because you cannot get to permanent realization without understanding the steps. And that requires practice. 

Nothingness or God is reality, but experience tells us that you and I as nothingness is an ego inside a body and the evidence of this is sensation tied to belief. 

That belief and sensation never goes away. And you don't want it to go away either. Because being nothingness is not what you want because you will just be a mess. I had a discussion on here about ramana maharshi and i said that ramana was a mess. He wasn't trained by a swami, he just woke up and let his body be eaten by rodents and didn't care. That's why he got arthritis in his hips? Who knows? But there are certain consequences you pay for ignoring samsara. 

But the belief and sensation can be seen directly for what they are if you are already disidsntifed from the body and mind as the witness. 

Once you are the witness all you need to do is put attention on the sensation of boundary between body and world and eventually the boundary will collapse and you will wake up from the dream as the universe. But for the witness already not identified with body and mind it's a very small step from being formless witnessing presence realizing that this presence is not local. It's everything. 

So no ego death required. Just skill and understanding. That's what this meditation practice will do for you. If you feel you are dying then you are still the body or mind. 

When you say you're enlightened I know you are not because you have not done the work to understand all of these stages of meditation states. 

No hard feelings and I'm not saying you didn't have a bona fide experience either. I don't know. But what i do know is that you speak from ego as if it is real. When you speak as nothiness having an ego then you can be called a master of the work. 

Edited May 10, 2019 by David Hammond

[Conrad]

On 9.5.2019 at 0:09 PM, Ponder said:

Do you think enlightenment entails the cessation of suffering or not? And if so, why? 

It entails the death of the "I" state into the God-realized state "I am God". Conscious Aware Being Conscious and Aware of itself. Self-knowing.

This will end all suffering. You simply cannot suffer. 

[Preetom]

1 hour ago, cetus56 said:

 

@David Hammond @Inliytened1 Leo verbally warned all of you about the nonduality wars the other day and it hasn't stopped since. 

The holy war will never end until the true reign of a unanimous enlightened master gets established once and for all!!

[Preetom]

@David Hammond

what is your view on self-awareness or self-inquiry?

Do you find it as a valid path to enlightenment? If so when is it to be used and what is it's limit?

[David Hammond]

Just now, Preetom said:

@David Hammond

what is your view on self-awareness or self-inquiry?

Do you find it as a valid path to enlightenment? If so when is it to be used and what is it's limit?

Self inquiry is what I've just described. I don't ask questions, I just sit on that boundary I feel until I'm not aware of it anymore. 

[Forestluv]

@David Hammond Thanks for sharing those insights. Good stuff ♥️ ? 

Just an observation: you seem to be assuming that groundless is grounded. That a somewhere is nowhere/everywhere. These mental constructs of enlightenment and how to attain enlightenment yield wonderful insights and realizations. It’s very tempting for a mind to become attached and identified to such realizations and the attachment/identification can be extremely subtle. Yet all of it can get deconstructed to nothing. It’s the output of a human mind filter and there is a “prior” to that filter - including all the filtered insights you, me, Leo, everyone on this forum and every sage, mystic, guru, teacher is communicating. 

[Inliytened1]

@Preetom Self Inquiry is what REALLY awoke me actually.  Deep self inquiry and also practicing no-mind/do-nothing.

When A mystical experience happens your direct experience literally becomes BEING.  (the you is no longer there - can call it death/ego/ these are all words we can use interchangeably)

You become Being itself, which IS conscious.  So you become conscious of Truth.  In my Awakening i became conscious of the fact that reality is a giant mind - Consciousness is not within a brain, the brain is within Consciousness or Being.

I also became conscious of Absolute Love, and Infinite Intelligence.

It is the most amazing thing you will ever experience in your life.

Not only that - things you thought were real before will be recontexualized and literally just MELT away before your eyes.

One of those things is the fact that the substance of reality - and you  - is absolutely Nothing, and that's kinda mind blowing and leads to ego backlash afterwards.

Even now as i'm typing this I can feel Being.  Once you have Awoke you are opened up to it.

 

Edited May 10, 2019 by Inliytened1

[Jack River]

7 minutes ago, Serotoninluv said:

@David Hammond Thanks for sharing those insights. Good stuff ♥️ ? 

Just an observation: you seem to be assuming that groundless is grounded. That a somewhere is nowhere/everywhere. These mental constructs of enlightenment and how to attain enlightenment yield wonderful insights and realizations. It’s very tempting for a mind to become attached and identified to such realizations and it the attachment/identification can be extremely subtle. Yet all of it can get deconstructed to nothing. It’s the output of a human mind filter and there is a “prior” to that filter - including all the filtered insights you, me, Leo, everyone on this forum and every sage, mystic, guru, teacher is communicating. 

?