Jordan Peterson Dynamic

[whatishappeningtome]

19 hours ago, now is forever said:

this is actually not so easy to be withdrawn - it makes some sense, how do you know for some people carpentry wouldn’t be more of a life purpose than an assembly line job or being a secretary/coffee fetcher and in the end jesus was a carpenter, wasn’t he? working with wood can be a very fulfilling job. also the guys i met who learned carpentry before they got designers are the better furniture designers.

we have this discussion for a while going on in germany, too. it’s a common sense thing, right left, both talk about it. it’s supposedly more  the attempt to streangthen the middle class again. 

we all like to feed the mindfactory.

Of course it's important, I have just heard Jordan Peterson warning creative people not to expect to be able to make money from their art. I think for aspiring artists is not the advice they want to hear and is akin to the way many people of that generation speak and instruct creative types.

[now is forever]

2 hours ago, whatishappeningtome said:

Of course it's important, I have just heard Jordan Peterson warning creative people not to expect to be able to make money from their art. I think for aspiring artists is not the advice they want to hear and is akin to the way many people of that generation speak and instruct creative types.

well i’m not so sure who he is instructing , but in europe we know at least that since some centuries - van gogh would throw an ear at him 

but yeah maybe the younger generations are having more illusions in that direction, therefore if people want to make art they need to find a way for that - no one said art is easy, who did? it’s like the hollywood myth and the next top model syndrome.

Edited May 10, 2019 by now is forever

[Cocolove]

@Leo Gura

I've been watching JP's classroom lecture playlists from youtube, and they are really good. They are definitely systemic thinking. If you checked those out, e.g. 2016 maps of meaning lectures, I think you would see that there's more to him. It sucks that he's being such a devil.

Check out this video of JP extremely passionate about the environment:

what changed?

Edited May 11, 2019 by Cocolove

[Leo Gura]

On 5/9/2019 at 3:09 AM, CreamCat said:

Whomever is defending post-modernism against JP is wasting time, too.

No

Post-modernism doesn't need to be defended. It just needs to understood and integrated.

Most people suffer from lack of understanding of relativism. JP is denying the highly important truth of moral relativity. This is an error which will cost many lives.

JP has not yet evolved to post-modernism. Not to mention post-post-modernism.

[universe]

On 9.5.2019 at 11:34 AM, CreamCat said:

There's the threat of intelligent AIs, too. They could wipe out billions of humans in this century.

And dolphins! You dont know what these fish dolphins are up to!

 

Topic: Much of his appeal to the masses is his charisma and debating skills. Only watched a few videos in 2018 I think. 

[Forestluv]

On 5/9/2019 at 5:34 AM, CreamCat said:

There's the threat of intelligent AIs, too. They could wipe out billions of humans in this century.

Well, hopefully AI will be higher evolved than humans and won’t express such lowly evolved humanoid desires and behavior. ?

[CreamCat]

1 hour ago, Leo Gura said:

Not to mention post-post-modernism.

I'm gearing toward post-post-post-modernism.

1 hour ago, Cocolove said:

It sucks that he's being such a devil.

He's a handsome devil.

1 hour ago, Leo Gura said:

JP is denying the highly important truth of moral relativity. This is an error which will cost many lives.

Because moral absolutists like ISIS soldiers are killing and raping people? According to some stories, when gangsters rape people, they rape wives and husbands together as a form of punishment. They don't fuck around.

Edited May 12, 2019 by CreamCat

[CreamCat]

34 minutes ago, Serotoninluv said:

Well, hopefully AI will be higher evolved than humans and won’t express such lowly evolved humanoid desires and behavior. ?

In the best case scenario, AIs will cause massive job losses, and many millions of people will starve to death by failing to adjust to job automation.

Automation of more than 99% of jobs could lead to the death of a billion people by starvation if people don't adjust economically in time.

Even if AIs try to keep people alive, many millions could still die due to lack of job.

The road to heaven is paved through a mountain of dead bodies.

Edited May 12, 2019 by CreamCat

[Leo Gura]

23 minutes ago, CreamCat said:

Because moral absolutists like ISIS soldiers are killing and raping people?

No. Look closer to home. 

JP's worldview and politics are what lead to global warming, unchecked capitalism, the Iraq War, dronestrikes, military industrial complex, Big Pharma, and coups like that currently being staged in Venezuela.

It's basically Bush-era Neo-Con politics. That is right-wing politics which JP is basically defending.

The Iraq War killed 200,000+ civilians.

That's modernism in action. Trump is a continuation of that.

Modernism is raping the world.

[CreamCat]

14 minutes ago, Leo Gura said:

JP worldview and politics are what lead to global warming, unchecked capitalism, the Iraq War, dronestrikes, military industrial complex, and coups like that currently being staged in Venzuela.

It's basically Bush-era Neo-Con politics.

The Iraq War killed 200,000+ civilians.

I think the wars go beyond world views.

Two world wars led to military industrial complex which can sustain for decades regardless of world views

It's law of attraction in action. A large sum of money attracts more money. A large military industrial complex finds ways to sustain itself for a while.

In addition to law of attraction, people want to exact bigger revenge than they think they were wronged. Also, USA citizens didn't want a third world war, so they kept their army big to warn other countries that they don't fuck around.

To me, it seems that people are just gun-toting monkeys with nuclear weapons. Monkeys cannot be trusted to not wage wars. Monkeys would go through a huge amount of mental gymnastics to create world views and justify wars.

What do you propose as a solution for uncontrollable monkeys?

Edited May 12, 2019 by CreamCat

[ValiantSalvatore]

@CreamCat I still don't quite fathom this. I mean there are sectors like human-computer interaction and coding jobs that can provide millions and billions potentially to the economy etc. Even in places Africa. 

What exactly is so scary about a.i? Besides the loss of jobs in automation and starting........ an era of automation. 

When I went to the new CeBIT a couple of months ago, they had some small research institute having a sort of permaculture, hydroculture. What if many futuristic inventions can finally be developed thanks to automation? 

Edited May 12, 2019 by ValiantSalvatore

[Leo Gura]

@CreamCat LoA is directly related to worldview.

The Neo-Con worldview is directly responsible for this nonsense.

"Axis of evil" and all that. Study the Neo-Con worldview carefully. It is deeply fear-based. Just like JP.

[CreamCat]

11 minutes ago, ValiantSalvatore said:

@CreamCat I still don't quite fathom this. I mean there are sectors like human-computer interaction and coding jobs that can provide millions and billions potentially to the economy etc. Even in places Africa. 

What exactly is so scary about a.i? Besides the loss of automation and starting........ an era of automation. 

When I went to the new CeBIT a couple of months ago, they had some small research institute having a sort of permaculture, hydroculture. What if many futuristic inventions can finally be developed thanks to automation? 

Almost everyone on this planet seems to be against universal basic income. Without some form of cash handouts, most people would starve to death when AIs start automating 99% of jobs quickly. Job automation could happen very fast.

Currently, without jobs, there is no income. Without income, you cannot buy food or maintain house.

What kind of economic system can sustain billions of people if 99% of them are jobless?

Humans have never tried a jobless economy, yet. The transition to one can be done, but the transition could entail the death of a billion. It could encite the third world war, too.

Edited May 12, 2019 by CreamCat

[CreamCat]

3 minutes ago, Leo Gura said:

@CreamCat LoA is directly related to worldview.

The Neo-Con worldview is directly responsible for this nonsense.

"Axis of evil" and all that. Study the Neo-Con worldview carefully. It is deeply fear-based. Just like JP.

The fact that billions of humans are uncontrollable monkeys with nuclear weapons on a gravity prison called earth doesn't change.

I have a feeling that Green is not enough to prevent the third world war unless people integrate tier 1 properly.

Being centered around Green doesn't mean much without proper integration. People who lack proper integration are lazy and spiteful and vengeful.

[Leo Gura]

1 minute ago, CreamCat said:

People who lack proper integration are lazy and spiteful and vengeful.

That's JP. He lacks Green Tier 1 integration.

[CreamCat]

38 minutes ago, Leo Gura said:

That's JP. He lacks Green Tier 1 integration.

I'm talking about proper solid integration of tier 1.

I can say that my integration of tier 1 is a swiss cheese with a lot of holes from Beige through to Green.

There are not many people who have solid foundation of tier 1. But, there are still many people who are simply centered around Green. JP is but one man. It's not one man's fault that the global population doesn't have solid foundation of tier 1.

Being centered at Green is not hard. Proper integration of tier 1 is. I suspect that simply being Green is not enough to prevent large wars because Green without proper integration cannot control its inner monkey. Assume that monkey is going to be there. Monkey magic is powerful.

Someone who has a solid foundation of tier 1 is a hero and can tackle world problems. We need more heroes who can tackle world problems and prevent wars rather than super villians who create wars. Since the global population cannot evolve fast enough, heroes have important role of protecting human species.

A hero might even think about preventing the death of billions in the face of automation of 99% of jobs by AIs.

Edited May 12, 2019 by CreamCat

[Forestluv]

40 minutes ago, CreamCat said:

In the best case scenario, AIs will cause massive job losses, and many millions of people will starve to death by failing to adjust to job automation.

Automation of more than 99% of jobs could lead to the death of a billion people by starvation if people don't adjust economically in time.

Even if AIs try to keep people alive, many millions could still die due to lack of job.

The road to heaven is paved through a mountain of dead bodies.

That is certainly a scenario. Another scenario is that AI evolves to a higher level than humans and domesticates humans as luxury pets and servants. I hope they would treat us pretty well.  

[universe]

26 minutes ago, CreamCat said:

What kind of economic system can sustain billions of people if 99% of them are jobless?

This is a question an intelligent AI may answer?

[CreamCat]

19 minutes ago, Serotoninluv said:

Another scenario is that AI evolves to a higher level than humans and domesticates humans as luxury pets and servants. I hope they would treat us pretty well.

The transition can still entail the death of a billion or another world war. Even if Ais try to keep humans alive, the big transitions endanger human species.

However, in the long run, short-term losses can be amortized. God works in mysterious ways.

Edited May 12, 2019 by CreamCat

[Forestluv]

11 minutes ago, CreamCat said:

The transition can still entail the death of a billion or another world war. Even if Ais try to keep humans alive, the big transitions endanger human species.

I can see that as well. If humans begin to see AI as a threat, they will fight for there power and survival. Against other humans or AI. I think AI would need to be evolved enough to recognize this human phenomenon and dissolve it. I imagine the human to AI difference intelligence/consciousness to be like the difference between an ant and human. Waaay beyond human level.

AI will be able to evolve sooo much faster than humans. For example, humans are limited to biological bodies and have a generation time of 20 yrs, which is getting closer to 30 years. AI won’t have these types of human system limitations.

Perhaps someday human bodies will be in AI museums as extinct specimens. Like dinosaurs are in human museums today.