Spiral Dynamics case study on an ex-KGB member

[Bernardo Carleial]

Hi guys! I been watching some videos on YouTube and I stumbled upon an old video that shows an ex-KGB member called Yuri Bezmenov talking about his techniques of espionage on foreign countries. It's a very interesting video, however, I could that someimes he rants against the leftists, that makes me wander. So I tried to use the SD to see if I can get some answers. And What I came out with is that he might be critizing the left from a stage blue/orange perspective. Probably because he spent all his life in the soviet era. Which was basically red/blue. That I think he is projecting out and lumping all together with the left .  I'm not an expert about it. That's why I brought this topic for you guys so that we can dicuss. Thanks

 

 

[Leo Gura]

It's understandable that an ex-Soviet would have an allergy to Green and leftists because of his personal experiences with Soviet communism. The mistake though is to confuse stage Blue and even Red communism with stage Green American liberalism or democratic socialism. They are very different things and this is hard to distinguish unless you've studied Spiral Dynamics (which almost no one has).

This is a common mistake conservatives make. They equate Bernie Sanders with Venezuela, which is absurdly bad analysis. Venezuela is closer to Republicans than to stage Green.

[Bernardo Carleial]

I think Venezuela had some layers of green as well. The problem though is that I think they became too ideological about it and then Chavez started to create a cult of personality about him and his bolivarian socialism that went off the rails and now it became just a way to concentrate/centralize power over the whole country.

41 minutes ago, Leo Gura said:

It's understandable that an ex-Soviet would have an allergy to Green and leftists because of his personal experiences with Soviet communism. The mistake though is to confuse stage Blue and even Red communism with stage Green American liberalism or democratic socialism. They are very different things and this is hard to distinguish unless you've studied Spiral Dynamics (which almost no one has).

This is a common mistake conservatives make. They equate Bernie Sanders with Venezuela, which is absurdly bad analysis. Venezuela is closer to Republicans than to stage Green.

 

[Leo Gura]

The key issue with nations is the stage of development of their infrastructure. It does not matter what the ideology is so much as what values the infrastructure is embodying. If the courts, police, and politicians are corrupt, and the economy is pre-industrial or only based on one resource like crude oil, and there is no seperation of chruch and state, then no Green government is possible even if a Green ideology is spread to everyone.

It works just like with individual development. Just because you read a lot of books or watch a lot of videos about personal development does not mean you will be highly developed. It's very easy to create a lofty image in your mind of how developed you are when in reality your diet is terrible, your emotions are all over the place, you have a crazy monkey mind, your finacial situation is a disaster, you live in a bad environment, your friends are criminals, etc. Such a person will not be able to function at a high level because the infrastructure is so poor.

[CreamCat]

2 hours ago, Leo Gura said:

It's very easy to create a lofty image in your mind of how developed you are when in reality your diet is terrible, your emotions are all over the place, you have a crazy monkey mind, your finacial situation is a disaster, you live in a bad environment, your friends are criminals, etc. Such a person will not be able to function at a high level because the infrastructure is so poor.

This reminds me of myself. I call it dunning-kruger effect. I have been cleaning up false lofty ideals in my head. I'd rather be the lofty ideals than conceptualize or know about them. I started putting being in front of knowing and concepts.

[now is forever]

@CreamCat in a way that sounds good. but don’t forget there is also the peter principle so you need to balance both, dunning-kruger and peter principle, because a concept and being the concept sometimes don’t need the concept to exist. 

so a little bit more dunning kruger on the micro level for your private everyday life experiments, but a little bit of macro knowledge so you don’t get stuck in the peter principle.

Edited April 17, 2019 by now is forever

[CreamCat]

6 hours ago, now is forever said:

@CreamCat in a way that sounds good. but don’t forget there is also the peter principle so you need to balance both, dunning-kruger and peter principle, because a concept and being the concept sometimes don’t need the concept to exist. 

so a little bit more dunning kruger on the micro level for your private everyday life experiments, but a little bit of macro knowledge so you don’t get stuck in the peter principle.

The peter principle states that people in a hierarchy tend to rise to their level of incompetence.

I don't understand how the peter principle applies to me.

Quote

because a concept and being the concept sometimes don’t need the concept to exist. 

This part doesn't seem to make sense.

Edited April 17, 2019 by CreamCat

[now is forever]

@CreamCat the peter principle means that a challenge is not met because of incompetences due to overestimation of competence.