Self-realization is Void-bliss. It's not I, I-Am, or I-I.

[FoxFoxFox]

Outside of Winterknight I don't see this being talked about enough, and even he doesn't say it directly. This is the crux of self-realization. Nothing else matters. In this forum people are mostly interested in the relative content of the mind. Everyone is asking questions about morality, God, emotions, fear etc. Well sorry but none of these have anything to do with enlightenment. 

Also, you can't judge a person's enlightenment by what he believes in, because that stuff (again) has nothing to do with enlightenment. This is a misunderstanding that the mind of the enlightened person cannot hold beliefs etc. 

The only thing that does matter is identification. That is identification with the mind, the ego, the body, awareness etc.

The typical person identifies with objects: I am this or that.

The non-dual person identifies with: I am.

Self-inquiry practitioners identify with: I-I.

The self-realized person does not identify with any form of I, no matter how subtle, whatsoever.

If this is the compass of your path, you will make it. If not you won't. 

What ends up happening is that through intensity of longing, surrender, witnessing and devotion your identification mechanisms will break down. You will never, ever go back to the illusions. 

What is the initial experience after enlightenment? Void would be saying too much.

So ask yourself, is the only thing that there is void? If not, then you are deluded. 

Edited March 30, 2019 by FoxFoxFox

[Leo Gura]

Yes, the Godhead is void. And void is everything. And the I is that.

[zambize]

I didnt know you were enlightened, congratulations

[Highest]

@FoxFoxFox ????

[Aakash]

@FoxFoxFox i know this might be going back to basic for just a second, but how do you get rid of identification then

getting rid of the ego is a good starting point, but i don't think its helping any more lol 

[FoxFoxFox]

@Aakash

Witness the mind, the emotions, and the body. Really become conscious of the fact that they are phenomena that you become aware of, rather than owning them. That is to say, step out of "I-am". Normally you say, I am a body, or I am angry, or I have a thought. Stop that paradigm. Instead of being the owner, become the witness.

The next step is to become aware of "I-I", and you do this by turning awareness on the fact that you are owning awareness. You believe that you are a someone that is the owner of awareness, no matter how subtle this someone might be. You believe that you are a body-less being that is becoming aware of stuff. Well this notion must also go, and you that by silencing the mind and gradually merging into awareness - that is becoming one with it rather than objectifying and owning it.

The "I-I" will then become even more subtle. It will just become "I". That is, the subtlest feeling of being that is totally pulled back from objects. For this to break apart, awareness and mindfulness is not enough. You need intensity. You need to build up internal energy and become 'charged' so to speak. You will need longing, and desire, and devotion. Your whole world should become giving up this "I-ness". You should lament your inability and experience anguish. At the same time, you must stop the mind from theorizing its way into your core. No matter what the mind comes up with, know that the answers are not verbal. I personally recommend you practice Kriya and Kundalini yoga at this point.

Eventually, something will take hold of you. Energy will begin raising within you and you have to surrender to it. You have to let it take a hold of you and possess you. You will have to let go. The more intense you feel this energy, the easier surrender becomes because the force will be too overwhelming for you to resist. 

At this point you will probably shake and be in tears and might even lose consciousness and slip into nirvikalpa samadhi. Once the perceptions return and the mind begins recreating the world, there will be no longer any identification. Only void, and then bliss. 

Edited March 30, 2019 by FoxFoxFox

[Aakash]

@FoxFoxFox I am currently in I-I i have been so for two months, trying to silence the mind to become "aware of" only, 

a) do you have any more advice you could give besides silencing the mind, because i have definately been doing this as my next step, but i haven't got very far 

b) 

13 minutes ago, FoxFoxFox said:

Your whole world should become giving up this "I-ness".

isn't this the same as saying you should become 100% selfless

[Highest]

18 minutes ago, Aakash said:

@FoxFoxFox

18 minutes ago, Aakash said:

@FoxFoxFox

"When a man's ‘I’ is negated (and eliminated) from existence, then what remains? Consider, O denier" . - Rumi.

What remains is Allah (God). Your true nature is God who is  nothing and formless and at the same time all form and what not. Your identity is identity-less. Or to put it differently, your only identity is God. Realize this and all identification will cease to exist.

I didn't answer for FoxFoxFox, I think he answered very nicely. Just wanted to put some input into this.

The "I" should vanish completely from you and only God should remain. You should remain only as God which is the absence of "I". God can only be made conscious or aware of, but once that happens you will be liberated from the illusory ego and identification.

[FoxFoxFox]

@Aakash

Quote

I am currently in I-I i have been so for two months, trying to silence the mind to become "aware of" only, 

a) do you have any more advice you could give besides silencing the mind, because i have definately been doing this as my next step, but i haven't got very far 

Going from "I-I" to pure "I" happens by bringing the notion of being into the light of awareness. That is to say become witness to it. At the same time, don't look for another object to project into it. Be aware, without owning it. This is already your nature. You just have to give up the belief that there is a someone who is aware. A silent mind equates with pure awareness. However the mind cannot silence the mind. You have to deal with your mind's problems first. Do whatever is required, psychoanalysis, psychotherapy, artistic expressions etc. The reason the mind is agitated is because there are underlying issues it wants to resolve. A good way to silence the mind then, is facing those issues. 

 

Quote

isn't this the same as saying you should become 100% selfless

Well what do you mean by selfless? 

[FoxFoxFox]

@Highest Yes. The experience is phenomenal. Become God and witness your creation. Witness the appearance of how these fingers move of their own accord to type sentences. The experience really cannot be conveyed without causing confusion.

[Hima Izumi]

@foxfoxfox

Are you self realized?

Are you in permanent peace and did suffering end for you?

[Highest]

Just now, FoxFoxFox said:

@Highest Yes. The experience is phenomenal. Become God and witness your creation.

And that all of my creation is only Myself. ?

[Aakash]

@FoxFoxFox Thanks for answering the I-I question, it feels like i have direction again to follow, i kind of hit a roadblock, where i was doing that but owning it, so i didn't know if i was right or wrong. 

actually i'm not sure what i mean, but i think i was just trying to say by having your whole life about other people as opposed to yourself which would equate to 100% i-ness and giving up of it, 

i guess really what i'm trying to say is, does giving up the i-ness mean just bathing in total silence really without any identification, 

because its easy to say ohh just because i am god and put your iness on that, but as you said yesterday that is ignorance 

so is the silence, the god consciousness, loss of i-ness and pure awareness

[FoxFoxFox]

@Aakash

Quote

actually i'm not sure what i mean, but i think i was just trying to say by having your whole life about other people as opposed to yourself which would equate to 100% i-ness and giving up of it, 

That is a popular conception. It's called Bhakti, i believe - living entirely for other people. Many people attest to its effectivity. However this has not been the path I followed. I don't actually believe real Bhakti is possible before self-realization.

So I say, become self-less by stop identifying with the self. Whether you do that through total devotion to other people is ultimately your judgment call. 

Quote

does giving up the i-ness mean just bathing in total silence really without any identification, 

Yes. At that point, there will no longer be someone who is bathing in total silence. There is just void (and even calling it Void is saying too much.)

[FoxFoxFox]

@Hima Izumi 

8 minutes ago, Hima Izumi said:

@foxfoxfox

Are you self realized?

Are you in permanent peace and did suffering end for you?

Yes.

[Highest]

@FoxFoxFox Are you conscious that the void is God and is it in your experience that You can only be conscious or aware of it?

[FoxFoxFox]

@Highest We can think of it this way: The Self has two facets, pure being or void, and unlimited creative potential. I tend to call the creative potential God, but these are just names. 

[Highest]

1 minute ago, FoxFoxFox said:

@Highest We can think of it this way: The Self has two facets, pure being or void, and unlimited creative potential. I tend to call the creative potential God, but these are just names. 

Yes, the Self has those two facets. I have been in actual emptiness or void as I have said to you. Now I'm just pure being conscious of itself as itself. There is no more identification. All identification is false.

But wouldn't you agree that the void, being, and unlimited creative potential are the same thing as they are all the non-dual One aka God?

[FoxFoxFox]

@Highest Yes.

[Highest]

3 minutes ago, FoxFoxFox said:

@Highest Yes.

??