Experience and Experiencer

[StrangerWatch]

People assume there is an experience and a conscious experiencer.

But the experiencer can't logically exist without the experience.

So it would seem the experiencer is just another part of the human experience.

And when the human experience dies, the experiencer dies with it.

Death is very real, folks. People like Leo telling you there is a "true consciousness" transcending the one nature gave you may be soothing, but it isn't true.

Peace out. Enjoy your lives, and make others happy while we're all conscious.

Edited March 2, 2019 by StrangerWatch

[Cocolove]

and when the human dies, what experiencer dies with it? point to the experiencer.

[Truth Addict]

5 hours ago, StrangerWatch said:

Death is very real, folks.

Is it?

Like before you were born, where did you come from?

[Highest]

The conscious and aware experiencer cannot die. If it did Leo couldn’t have recalled that ‘’He’’ became Infinite.

Edited March 3, 2019 by Highest

[Jkris]

@Truth Addict Still I am unable to understand this question/pointer?  In deep sleep I dont exist like wise  before birth I didn't exist. And after death as well I won't exist. 

[StrangerWatch]

9 hours ago, Cocolove said:

and when the human dies, what experiencer dies with it? point to the experiencer.

The one most humans believe in. What we call self. It is an illusion, of course. There is no self to transcend experience after death.

[Jkris]

@StrangerWatch

Do this experiment at night. Switch off all the lights in your room. In pitch darkness take a torch light and keep focussing the torch light for 2 minutes. Then switch off the torch light. Then share your experience who the seer or the seer and the seen are same or different. 

Edited March 3, 2019 by Jkris
Missed a word

[StrangerWatch]

5 hours ago, Truth Addict said:

Is it?

Like before you were born, where did you come from?

My mother's womb? Billions of years of evolution? The big bang? I don't know how specific the question is.

Presumably there was no experience (or experiencer) before birth, so there's no reason to think any of it persists after death.

[StrangerWatch]

1 hour ago, Highest said:

The conscious and aware experiencer cannot die. If it did Leo couldn’t have recalled that ‘’He’’ became Infinite.

Don't know if you noticed this, but Leo is still alive. If he was dead, I'm pretty sure his feeling of being an aware experiencer would be gone.

When Leo says he became infinite, he's referring to hallucinations he has had, often on psychedelics. Hallucinations are based on pre-conceived notions in the mind, and manifest accordingly. Therefore, they cannot constitute scientific proof of how reality or humans work.

[StrangerWatch]

16 minutes ago, Jkris said:

@StrangerWatch

Do this experiment at night. Switch off all the lights in your room. In pitch darkness take a torch light and keep focussing the torch light for 2 minutes. Then switch off the light. Then share your experience who the seer or the seer and the seen are same or different. 

I've actually had a meditative experience of "no-self", and indeed the feeling of a separate experiencer dissolves into the experience.

To be fair, subjective experience should never be used as proof of how life and death works. I would rather say that my logical reasoning above is what can prove that there is no self or experiencer that transcends the experience.

Many of the people on this forum, including @Leo Gura, believe that the self is an illusion, as I do. But instead of identifying with the experience as a whole, they replace their old illusory self with the entire universe. To me, this is missing the point.

There are philosophical ways of saying that we are everything, but when many people say this, they are specifically claiming that all of existence has a single consciousness and that this consciousness is their true self.

In summary, many people here don't seem to truly grasp the idea that they have no "self". Instead they replace it with a new self: The spiritual self called God, the Universe, Absolute Infinity, etc..

[Highest]

1 hour ago, StrangerWatch said:

Don't know if you noticed this, but Leo is still alive. If he was dead, I'm pretty sure his feeling of being an aware experiencer would be gone.

 

Yes.

1 hour ago, StrangerWatch said:

When Leo says he became infinite, he's referring to hallucinations he has had, often on psychedelics. Hallucinations are based on pre-conceived notions in the mind, and manifest accordingly. Therefore, they cannot constitute scientific proof of how reality or humans work.

I completely disagree that becoming infinite aka God is a hallucination. And science is horse shit.

Edited March 3, 2019 by Highest

[Nahm]

12 hours ago, StrangerWatch said:

Peace out. Enjoy your lives, and make others happy while we're all conscious.

You too! Thanks ??

[Truth Addict]

4 hours ago, Jkris said:

@Truth Addict Still I am unable to understand this question/pointer?  In deep sleep I dont exist like wise  before birth I didn't exist. And after death as well I won't exist. 

Is memory a proof of existence?

4 hours ago, StrangerWatch said:

My mother's womb? Billions of years of evolution? The big bang? I don't know how specific the question is.

Interesting stories. But that's not an answer.

4 hours ago, StrangerWatch said:

Presumably there was no experience (or experiencer) before birth, so there's no reason to think any of it persists after death.

What is an experience?

[Dodo]

5 hours ago, Jkris said:

@Truth Addict Still I am unable to understand this question/pointer?  In deep sleep I dont exist like wise  before birth I didn't exist. And after death as well I won't exist. 

@StrangerWatch 

Reply to you both. 

Suppose the only real you is the one you are now - your exact human body - and you couldn't be without it. 

You = a specific soup of atoms and molecules which generates your specific awareness / experience. 

when this specific combo of atoms and molecules dies, suppose you lose consciousness. 

This means that you are in a "skip" situation. Perhaps you "skip" 1 trillion years, perhaps 10000000 trillion barangazillion years into the future. For you it is no time, because you are not conscious. 

In infinity, there is a 100% chance that the same atoms and molecules will blend together the same way they did before (since it already happened one time (now) this is proof that there is more than 0% chance to happen, so in infinite time it will happen 100%) 

So you will just get born again with the same soup of atoms, mollecules or different ones, but generating the same awareness - the awareness that you are right now. Even if its a dream you or any other explanation, the same chain of events that lead to you being alive now will happen again in infinity (infinity is the time you have after the supposed death (which you will not be experiencing)) . 

So from your point of view, did you die for 1000000000 trillion bazillion years, or did you die, and instantly get reborn as the same awareness? From your point of view, just like when sleeping, you are not waiting to wake up, it is instant. So from your POV, the process will be continuous, there will not be a disconnection, you won't experience the lack of awareness - EVER.

Even from that point of view death is a joke.

If you are experiencing death, you are not dead - because there is a you. If you are not experiencing death, you are not dead. So how can you be dead? 

Edited March 3, 2019 by Dodo

[non_nothing]

you went to wrong direction after line 2

experiencer is the experienced

[StrangerWatch]

1 hour ago, non_nothing said:

you went to wrong direction after line 2

experiencer is the experienced

That was my point all along...

[StrangerWatch]

7 hours ago, Truth Addict said:

Is memory a proof of existence?

Interesting stories. But that's not an answer.

What is an experience?

Answer to Question 1:

No, but there's no reason to think experience started before life began.

 

Answer to Question 2:

Those are not stories. The first two are undisputed facts about life. Are you implying that consciousness transcends human life?

 

Answer to Question 3:

I use the words "experience" and "consciousness" interchangeably. Do you still require a definition?

[StrangerWatch]

10 hours ago, Highest said:

Yes.

I completely disagree that becoming infinite aka God is a hallucination. And science is horse shit.

Lol.

[Truth Addict]

20 minutes ago, StrangerWatch said:

Answer to Question 1:

No, but there's no reason to think experience started before life began.

 

Answer to Question 2:

Those are not stories. The first two are undisputed facts about life. Are you implying that consciousness transcends human life?

 

Answer to Question 3:

I use the words "experience" and "consciousness" interchangeably. Do you still require a definition?

I'd say if we were to focus on what's in our hands right now, that'd be enough.

[Nahm]

On 3/2/2019 at 5:27 PM, StrangerWatch said:

Peace out. Enjoy your lives, and make others happy while we're all conscious.

Ok. Take care. We wish you well!?