Bernie Sanders

[Aakash]

@How to be wise lool i finally think i get it now, your creating a duality where there is none (i the doer am letting the doing do- this is a duality) lol, you are the being itself - so you will think that the soup with piss in it is bad lol 

[How to be wise]

@Leo Gura well, you could be right. I’m still clearing away my shadow. One rule I do follow though, is that I never act out of any negative emotion. If even the tiniest of fear/anger arises within me, I get to Work on it right away. 

As for what arises, it’s none of my business. My body just moves with it. I have no choice.

[Forestluv]

@How to be wise  Every developmental stage has it's traps. They get more subtle and nuanced the deeper we go.

[Aakash]

@How to be wise but what if fear and anger aren't bad? what if it's pure nothingness BEING anger and fear itself, there in itself is no doership/ something done / or something happening. there is only an illusion of something happening ?

[Inliytened1]

@How to be wise Leo is holding onto his ego.  I hate to say this but so are you.  If you let go you will be no more.  All we have is ego and pure being.  Pure being cannot post here.  Only ego can post here.

 

[Aakash]

@Inliytened1 it so ironic! that believing that there is one letting go is an obsticle itself, but letting go is the only way to get to the truth. 

i guess this is what is meant by the seeker is the one who is in his own way. 

[lmfao]

@Leo Gura

25 minutes ago, Leo Gura said:

@lmfao Again, you also have to be realistic. Does the person you're voting for really have a chance of winning? Will your donation go to waste?

Simple-mindedly voting for the highest stage candidate is not good enough. Because society might not be ready for stage Yellow yet, or because stage Yellow might not be the right counter-balance to stage Blue & Orange in the way that stage Green might be. You have to consider all these nuances. There are many stage Yellow people in the world who would not make for effective politicians or who might not introduce significant enough policy proposals. Dealing with the hardcore right in this country is not easy. You have to know how to drive a hard bargain. Meeting them half-way often doesn't work so well (as we saw with Obama). Sometimes a good battle is necessary to bring the losing position into collective awareness.

Good point. He has a small chnace of winning, although if by some miracle he ends up in a 1v1 with trump I wouldn't be too surprised if he won. Like you said though, voting simply for the highest stage is not always the best choice. They may not interact with the current system set up in the best way possible for both the long and short term improvement of the system. An extreme case of this would be trying to get a stage green person to lead a stage red society.

As society is in America, I could see why you could argue for there to be a strong and blatant expression of green so that green has its place firmly cemented in society. 

He advocates for some pretty bold things. Universal Basic Income, wants the country to stop using GDP as a measure of success and shift towards measuring success in terms of human wellbeing and fulfillment. He's thinking long term about automation of jobs and about how so many people will probably lose their jobs. 

[Leo Gura]

@lmfao That all sounds fine. My only issue is that I don't see him having a chance in hell of winning the Democrat primaries. He won't even be in the top 5.

Besides being good on policies a politician needs to be charismatic, able to rally people behind him, and excite his base.

[Quicksilver]

Im just a lowly Orange person and i don't understand: whats so appealing about socialism to Green/yellow people? 

How can one believe that its possible to have free this and free that without breaking the backs of your middle class via tax and inflation or impoverishing your children via ever increasing debt? 

All socialist programs have turned western countries from clean prosperous places to filthy slums. Im old enough to remember the before and the after. 

So what is it? Enlighten me, so to speak. 

[Forestluv]

@Quicksilver Green is calling for democratic socialism, not socialism.

https://www.dsausa.org/about-us/what-is-democratic-socialism/

[Quicksilver]

Im really not watching fox news... Hehe. 

As a matter of fact im living and lived in western Europe in some of the most spirally Green countries on the planet and i think i understand what they mean by socialism.

And this is what im challenging - not the bolshevik version of socialism but the western European socialism that somehow people in America believe is some kind of magical solution to problems. 

European socialism is still comprised of a lot of wishful thinking about free stuff that magically has to be paid for by something. Basically what Bernie is talking about. 

But in reality its just fantasy land. 

As a result of these socialit policies, in here, everything is getting increasingly expensive, people are increasingly getting complacent, filth accumulates everywhere and the standard of living of being middle-class is continuing to decline. 

Its a very destructive concept in nature. 

And the state in order to maintain the status quo and maintain the flow of free stuff just has to increasingly tax and borrow. It hurts young people the most as most of them cannot really even afford to start a family or own a home. 

I dont understand it, but again im just an orange guy living in a green country... Maybe im missing something... Still im open to new ideas... 

 

[Forestluv]

14 minutes ago, Quicksilver said:

I dont understand it

I posted a link above that gives a thourough explanaion, perhaps that may help. It sounds like you have some pre-conceptions. 

No one is calling it a utopia and work is needed to improve and continue to evolve into yellow. Yet it is more evolved than the terminus of capitalism.

Green emphasizes collective consciousness and community welfare, which is more evolved than self-centered profits and material gains over community welfare.

As well, according to SD lower stages are not rejected, they are embodied into higher stages. So, aspects of Orange will be present in Green. For example, a hallmark of Orange is rational thinking. One doesn’t reject and stop rational thinking when they evolve to Green and Yellow.

[Quicksilver]

Ok ill have a thorough read tonight and reply with more depth.

 

[p1xelmonk]

On 2/20/2019 at 4:20 PM, Leo Gura said:

@lmfao That all sounds fine. My only issue is that I don't see him having a chance in hell of winning the Democrat primaries. He won't even be in the top 5.

Besides being good on policies a politician needs to be charismatic, able to rally people behind him, and excite his base.

I'm interested in hearing more of your reasoning behind this. why don't you think he excites his base? he's the most popular politician in the country right now. bernie plans to have one million grassroot activists in every single state soon. he raised over six million dollars in the first 24 hours of his announcement with the average donation being just $13. no other candidate is going to come anywhere close to that level of grassroot support. as far as i'm aware the vast majority of polling data puts him at the top as well, not that that's saying a whole lot tho.

[Forestluv]

@p1xelmonk It was referring to Andrew Yang, not Bernie. 

[Emerald]

21 hours ago, Quicksilver said:

European socialism is still comprised of a lot of wishful thinking about free stuff that magically has to be paid for by something. Basically what Bernie is talking about. 

You'll find that politicians can find tons of ways to pay for free stuff for the ultra-rich and huge corporations. What we have in America is corporate welfare, where Jeff Bezos (the richest man in the entire world) not only paid $0 in taxes in 2017 and 2018. He also got money back from the government. Not to mention huge bank bailouts. And corporations not paying living wages to their employees, forcing their employees into welfare programs like food stamps and cash assistance. So, corporations paying poverty wages is also being subsidized by the government, simply so those people can eat and live. 

So, there's always a TON of money to spend when it is in the interests of the upper-crust.

Yet, when it comes to things that benefit the average person like healthcare and education, it's always "Look at all this frivolous free stuff. We can't afford that!" And there's this huge act like they just can't do it. But they can. In fact, a Medicare for all, single payer healthcare system (aka socialized medicine) would actually save between $2 trillion and $5 trillion over the course of the next ten years compared to what we currently have. 

Also, free college for all would cost abut $80 billion per year. America currently has a military budget that's over $700 billion per year. And it just got a $100 billion dollar increase last year. So, the increase (just the increase) to the military budget from 2017 to 2018, would more that cover free college.

So, it's really just a matter of re-allocating government funds from things that only benefit the very wealthy to things that benefit the people. America is already a mixed economy with both capitalism and socialism. So, the use of the word "socialism" as a scare tactic is quite laughable. We already have it and always have. It's just that our socialism that we currently have (tons of corporate socialism) is benefiting the few at the expense of the many. So, what Bernie Sanders is proposing is to re-arrange the socialism we have to work for the common good.

But this video shows how everything can be paid for quite simply. There are about 20 different solutions that are given. And if we only pick a handful of them, it will be more than enough to pay for the programs Bernie is proposing. 

[Emerald]

56 minutes ago, p1xelmonk said:

I'm interested in hearing more of your reasoning behind this. why don't you think he excites his base? he's the most popular politician in the country right now. bernie plans to have one million grassroot activists in every single state soon. he raised over six million dollars in the first 24 hours of his announcement with the average donation being just $13. no other candidate is going to come anywhere close to that level of grassroot support. as far as i'm aware the vast majority of polling data puts him at the top as well, not that that's saying a whole lot tho.

 

57 minutes ago, p1xelmonk said:

I'm interested in hearing more of your reasoning behind this. why don't you think he excites his base? he's the most popular politician in the country right now. bernie plans to have one million grassroot activists in every single state soon. he raised over six million dollars in the first 24 hours of his announcement with the average donation being just $13. no other candidate is going to come anywhere close to that level of grassroot support. as far as i'm aware the vast majority of polling data puts him at the top as well, not that that's saying a whole lot tho.

He was talking about Andrew Yang, not Bernie Sanders.

[p1xelmonk]

18 minutes ago, Emerald said:

He was talking about Andrew Yang, not Bernie Sanders.

oh damn, looks like I completely misread the thread 

[Inliytened1]

@Aakash thats the paradox.  You nailed it.

On 2/20/2019 at 5:14 PM, How to be wise said:

@Leo Gura You don’t get it. I’m not doing anything. I’m letting go of doing. After you see the world as an illusion, doing ceases. Decisions and actions are made spontaneously. I’m only following whatever arises to me. 

Remember that other people don’t exist. You said that elegantly in the beginning of the video. There’s nothing to do, so let go of doing and let the spontaneity take over. 

Dr

[SA2541]

Here in Finland we have unemployment benefit, if you are unemployed you can get different kinds of benefits so you can survive. I think it's a great system, its not perfect of course, there are some people how abuse it, but that's still not that big percent of people, most people want to get job and these benefits are really helping unemployed people so that they don't drop out of society. It's making this country more safe, there is not that much crime here in Finland and I think social security is big part of that. We also have very few homeless people. We also have free health care for all and free education. Yes its expensive but also it's very much worth it. It makes the society function so much better in so many ways.