Laws of Infinity/God and free will?

[Miavono]

Chances are I haven't thought this through enough or my metaphysics is off but hence the query. Does Absolute Infinity or God have any fundamental rules or laws that it must embody in order to actually be. If so what are they and what creates them if not God? 

For example perhaps, it has to be everything ever, and equally nothing. It has to be non dual by nature and any opposite depends upon its pair in order to exist, like light/ dark, existence/ non-existence.

This would suggest to me that there are certain limits to it but that doesn't fit into something that is limitless. 

If it truly is limitless aren't such apparent laws like nonduality and Infinity just that, apparent? If it is groundless then it can be literally anything it wants, including finite without infinity, light but without requiring darkness to define it, or it can exist without necessitating non existence to imply it. 

Like I say my thinking may well be very flawed, however if it can ultimately do what it wants how it wants because it truly is limitless then it must have infinite free will, despite its manifestations appearing to have no free will at all (like you and me). Wouldn't this suggest that it could be all 'bad' without good, or all 'good' without bad?

 If not, does that not then point to a limited thing? 

If it does not have infinite free will to be any configuration it wants, does it just spawn into everything and nothing because it has to?

Something that is completely unlimited (like an infinite river with no dam to stop it) will just flow helplessly, being every possible variation it can be to Infinity. Would that not suggest that it is limited to being infinite or am I just spewing paradoxical word salad? 

Hope any of that makes sense. 

Question mostly for Leo with respect to his recent 'what is God? ' mini series but happy to hear anyone's ideas.

 Thanks

[TheAvatarState]

God is infinite and formless, by definition no limits or distinctions. In order for God to become form, it must impose limits and distinctions (laws), but these are all illusory. 

From what I understand and gather, reality is:

Good with a capital G.

Intelligent with a capital I.

Loving with a capital L.

This means in the absolute sense, so what these words are pointing to cannot be grasped by the dualistic mind. Love is not a law or limitation... Love is all there is. The amount of intelligence is not a law or limitation, it is the fabric of the universe, irreductible. 

 

[Truth Addict]

God has never spoken a word ever. I don't understand why people tell lies about It all the time.

Find God and ask It personally.

[Forestluv]

@Miavono

6 hours ago, Miavono said:

Chances are I haven't thought this through enough or my metaphysics is off but hence the query. Does Absolute Infinity or God have any fundamental rules or laws that it must embody in order to actually be. If so what are they and what creates them if not God? 

You are actually thinking this through too much. The answer is so simple that the intellectual mind will not accept it. It is so simple, it becomes highly challenging for the mind to embody. 

Embodiment of this realization is necessary to dissolve subconscious and conscious beliefs of an objective external reality.

Simply put. . . Absolute Infinity is Everything. That's it. No more conceptualization is necessary. Yet the mind will not accept this, so I'll make a couple more points. . . If there is one Everything, then any thing is within Everything. Every object, every emotion, every thought, every concept - everything. There is nothing outside of everything. As soon as the mind tries to create something outside of everything or something beyond Everything, it is immediately Everything. Whatever laws or non-laws you can conceive of is within Everything. 

It's so simple, yet so sneaky deep. My intellectual mind struggled with it for many years before it finally surrendered to this truth. There is no escape from Everything.

[Ethankahn]

7 hours ago, Serotoninluv said:

@Miavono

You are actually thinking this through too much. The answer is so simple that the intellectual mind will not accept it. It is so simple, it becomes highly challenging for the mind to embody. 

Embodiment of this realization is necessary to dissolve subconscious and conscious beliefs of an objective external reality.

Simply put. . . Absolute Infinity is Everything. That's it. No more conceptualization is necessary. Yet the mind will not accept this, so I'll make a couple more points. . . If there is one Everything, then any thing is within Everything. Every object, every emotion, every thought, every concept - everything. There is nothing outside of everything. As soon as the mind tries to create something outside of everything or something beyond Everything, it is immediately Everything. Whatever laws or non-laws you can conceive of is within Everything. 

It's so simple, yet so sneaky deep. My intellectual mind struggled with it for many years before it finally surrendered to this truth. There is no escape from Everything.

I knew we agreed! ? Word-choice just hid that until now. And yes yes, I know words aren’t what they’re pointing at Lol

[Leo Gura]

14 hours ago, Miavono said:

If it truly is limitless aren't such apparent laws like nonduality and Infinity just that, apparent?

Nonduality and Infinity are not laws.

And the distinction of apparent vs non-apparent is extinguished in nonduality.

Quote

If it is groundless then it can be literally anything it wants, including finite without infinity, light but without requiring darkness to define it, or it can exist without necessitating non existence to imply it.

It is precisely what it wants to be.

Nonduality requires nothing outside itself to define it. It exists without non-existence. It is light without dark. Nonduality has no opposite.

You are still thinking of nonduality dualistically.

[Leo Gura]

8 hours ago, Truth Addict said:

God has never spoken a word ever. I don't understand why people tell lies about It all the time.

Find God and ask It personally.

God speaks to those who know how to listen

Try opening your ears.

[Ethankahn]

@Leo Gura You and Serotoninluv! I knew we all agreed ? Word-choice just hides that. All is well. 

[Truth Addict]

1 hour ago, Leo Gura said:

God speaks to those who know how to listen

Try opening your ears.

But Leo, you're just rephrasing my words.

I listened and listened, and all I heard was nothing. Maybe God speaks through silence 

Edited February 16, 2019 by Truth Addict

[TheAvatarState]

3 minutes ago, Truth Addict said:

Maybe God speaks through silence

Is silence not the most profound awakening? 

[Truth Addict]

@TheAvatarState

If you mean by awakening: the freedom from illusion. Then, yes it is.

Edited February 16, 2019 by Truth Addict

[Miavono]

@Leo Gura thanks for your reply 

I expected that would likely be the problem, non duality is very tricky to say the least, and yet at the same time it's always simple really. 

My initial uncertainty came from listening to an Alan watts lecture where he spoke about the difference between black and white, light and dark, heads and tails and that they naturally imply each other, therefore are really the same thing. So I wondered if it was actually possible to have one without the other, because who says there has to be an opposite if it's non dual? Is the fault there with language and symbols? They are what cause the false perception of duality when really heads and tails are identical? 

I find myself going in circles a bit much which I'm sure would suggest I need to shut up and do the consciousness work instead of trying to think my way to an answer. I guess that's why the mystics only use riddle speak. 

 

7 hours ago, Leo Gura said:

It is precisely what it wants to be.

Nonduality requires nothing outside itself to define it. It exists without non-existence. It is light without dark. Nonduality has no opposite.

 

That being said, does that mean that it subsequently has unlimited free will? To be whatever it decides? Or Is there no other way but for it to encompass everything and anything possible and impossible? 

The reason I ask is because I'm wondering if you think it would be possible to become conscious of that will, and experience being that creative instead of through the lens of a limited/ finite being. Infinite creativity.

Have you experienced that yet like you say you have infinite love, infinite intelligence etc? If so how would you decide what the fuck to create other than everything possible. ?

Thanks again Leo 

 

[Leo Gura]

@Miavono Nonduality contains duality within it. Just look at the yin-yang image. It's both nondual and dual at the same times because it depends on how you want to look at it.

Free will vs not-free-will is a duality which collapses when you're in nondual consciousness.

Yes, you can tap into the infinite creativity of God, since you are him. But that does not necessary mean you can create mountains out of thin air.

[Jack Walter Leon]

@Leo Gura @Leo Gura What's your current view on free will anyway? Have your last awakening experiences changed your view on free will? 

I imagine that in the infinite God state we have free will and prepare our life exactly how it will eventually unfold. That means that when I'm experiencing myself as a human from an ego perspective, there's nothing I can do and everything unfolds exactly as it should be because that's what I wanted to experience. 

What do you think about that?