I don’t think people suffer because of purposless lives

[LastThursday]

I guess ambition (perhaps passion) can be both a pull and push effect and even both simultaneously. Maybe the creativity itself is not the ambition but this:

18 minutes ago, Leo Gura said:

It feels more like a postive need to express oneself.

I see the word 'need' in there, isn't that a deficiency? I don't really mean to break it down so much, but I just don't grok ambition - it's interesting to me to get to the crux of it. Isn't it just a future oriented process and as such a kind of story you would tell yourself?

Edited February 9, 2019 by LastThursday
Wrong attribution

[Seed]

@Leo Gura I feel like it distracts me. 

But, yes. Totally agree that sanity is overrated. 

I needed to hear this tonight. Funny, cause I dont usually hang out on here.

I love my mind. Wouldn't give it up for the world. Maybe that is why I don't chase enlightment. Although the glimpses are often a welcome treat.. ;-) 

 

[Leo Gura]

@LastThursday To me ambition is elemental. Don't try to redefine it using other words. It is what it is. Find it in your direct experience and observe how it works. It is a sort of emotive force. Some people have more of this force, others less.

[Aquarius]

@Leo Gura What if they are ambitious and imaginative but people punish them because they are visually attractive and decent kind persons?

Asking for a friend. 

Edited February 11, 2019 by Aquarius
i am the friend btw

[TheAvatarState]

@Conceptually-made Like most psychological models, not everyone is going to fit into the box. It is my observation that most people on this forum got here because self-actualization is actually a base need for them. From my own experience, there is a drive in me for this stuff that's as primal as my need for food and water. I can't get away from it. I have this thirst for Truth that can't be extinguished, and despite my upbringing, social conditioning, and ego, this force is slowly sucking me further down the rabbit hole. I am completely miserable trying to lead a "normal" life with all my base needs met, because I've deconstructed the meaning of all of them, and realized there's really nothing to do in this world except self-actualize. Like Leo has said in one of his videos, if you're smart about this, there's really nothing else to do except become a fucking Yogi. Basically. Of course you can help the world with your life purpose in a practical way, but if you're not conscious about your impact, if you're not awake, then what's the fucking point??? Call me a freak, but that's the way I see it. 

[Conceptually-made]

@TheAvatarState  Yeah i am not saying self-actualization is not a need. What i was saying is that at least some of us often confuse the need for self actualization with your actual lacking in self esteem which is a basic need. The discomfort from the basic needs is much different from the discomfort that higher needs cause. Not having those basic needs met feels more of a threat than discomfort. You feel as if you must have these needs met since it is about your conceptual survival. And i know that you will say that you must have your self actualization need met aswell but realize how the need to feel accepted and a “good individual” in this world ( self esteem need) differs from the need to pursue what you love. One is driven by deficiency and other by inspiration. Sure you will feel sad, unsatisfied and agitated if this need of yours is thwarted but it is completely different from any of the basic needs.

[TheAvatarState]

@Conceptually-made That's not true for everyone. There are many people, including me, that feel like dying if all they amount to is a "good citizen." My self actualization need is stronger and more primal than my self esteem need. I've sacrificed a lot in the early stages to go down this path. 

If it doesn't work that way for you, great! But everyone is different, you can't make sweeping generalizations. Don't confuse the map (Maslow's pyramid) for the territory. 

[Chives99]

be as ambitious as you want it wont matter when you're dead, whats really important is living a life in which you're loving every moment and consumed by the beauty and mystery of life. I mean sages are hardly ambitious they hide away in their cave. I know that wouldn't be desirable for a lot of people though.

[Conceptually-made]

@TheAvatarState   I wasn’t talking about being a good citizen i was talking about loving who you are and feeling that you are great.

Also don’t you think that your idea of self actualization is actually serving your self esteem. Do you want to be an actualized human being? Do you feel like there is an end to your process of self actualization? If so this is serving your self esteem. If you think that you are ready to be seen as a freak by society in order to reach your actualized self there is great chance it is serving your self esteem. Do you think that you would prefer being a dumb and unconscious person in your mind in order to do what you love? I think you wouldn’t.

This map that i am using is grounded in the nature of human beings. Yes we are different but i think the difference between us is mainly in the content and the deep underlying mechanisms are the same. Sure i may be wrong with this but i think that by deep investigation of your feelings and motives you will come to the same conclusion although i might be wrong.

Ego is a sneaky beast and it can trick you very easily.

[TheAvatarState]

27 minutes ago, Conceptually-made said:

Also don’t you think that your idea of self actualization is actually serving your self esteem.

In the end yes, but that's not the same thing. 

32 minutes ago, Conceptually-made said:

Do you feel like there is an end to your process of self actualization?

There is no end, it would be inconceivable to think otherwise. 

40 minutes ago, Conceptually-made said:

Do you think that you would prefer being a dumb and unconscious person in your mind in order to do what you love?

No... I'm saying the opposite. The self-actualization I'm talking about is becoming a conscious person above all. And I'd say you can't be dumb and unconscious and doing what you love, because even if you got the profession right, it would be done in an unconscious way, which means some aspect of yourself would not be authentic.

Deep investigations of my feelings and motives led me elsewhere. Some people are different. 

[Conceptually-made]

3 minutes ago, TheAvatarState said:

No... I'm saying the opposite. The self-actualization I'm talking about is becoming a conscious person above all. And I'd say you can't be dumb and unconscious and doing what you love, because even if you got the profession right, it would be done in an unconscious way, which means some aspect of yourself would not be authentic.

I meant you having a self image of being dumb and unconscious. I know it isn’t really logical but i was trying to point out how is it serving your self esteem.

 

But yeah okay i guess we don’t really agree about the topic hahah

 

[TheAvatarState]

1 minute ago, Conceptually-made said:

But yeah okay i guess we don’t really agree about the topic hahah

Yes, that's ok haha. Thanks for you responses ?