corndjorn

I think psychedelics can blunt spiritual progress. thoughts?

234 posts in this topic

1 hour ago, Joseph Maynor said:

This is easy to say and your Ego-Mind said it.  Yeah Joseph is a jerk.  Ok.  So now what.  What about you?  Are you such a nice person?  I don't think so.  See, this kind of pot-stirring is useless.  You guys use the word devil.  Well use it on yourselves.  Of course it would never apply to you, right?  That Spiritual Ego you got is a menace because you're not even fully conscious of your own Ego.  And yet you castigate my Ego in the most unfair light that your Ego-Mind can creatively muster.  I talked about being able to pass the laugh test before; this one doesn't pass the smell test.

I have to be honest.. Not that impressed with coral.

Also if you read my post I am struggling with my spiritual ego. I try and see it when it shows up. It's one of my main priorities on the path. I have plenty of self-deception, and I witness and acknowledge it, and yeah I probably get fooled by my ego a lot.

But anyways.. You are full of shit. You've built an identity around a spiritual persona on an internet forum as a desperate attempt to get approval and attention (and perhaps to mate?). It's incredibly obvious. And you NEED to get called out on it, it will be good for you in the long run.

People like that irritate the shit of me, and it's something I have to work further on, definitely. Good day to you.

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@Salvijus He is really not. I watched that video 4 years ago when I was super into him. Was doing his kriya and had a similar idea of him as you do now, and even then I was like... he is a trip.

justified it with something I read in his book, that once in a while he needs long intense safhana to get his system in order.

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@Arhattobe interesting. Well maybe you're right. But right now i just don't see it. Maybe someday. All i can see is confusion around him and incohesive questions witch make uncomfortable atmosphere but I don't see any anxiety coming out of him. Maybe a little hesitation before answering the questions because those questions are so illogical and incohesive. And before sadhguru has time to clarify things the host is shooting another set of incohesive questions at him. Witch naturally leads to disturbence. Usually Sadhguru takes 10min to answer 1 question to settle the atmosphere to prepare people's receptivity and bring clarity but host is just causing disturbence nonstop and after causing so much mess he says. Thank you for your time. Good bye :D

Also.You did Inner Engineering program? 

Edited by Salvijus

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I did. Back when I did it the inner engineering program and shmbhavi weren’t one thing though. So I took inner engineering. Then shambhavi. 

At the time he wasnt that big. 

I also saw him in person once. @Salvijus

Edited by Arhattobe

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I see :)

And what now? What practice do you do now? What teacher do you listen to? Did you find someone who's completly enlightened by your standarts? :)

Just curious :)

Edited by Salvijus

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@Salvijus The Buddha and Theravada Buddhism.

He is the only person that emphasises the end of craving, and all fear as full enlightenment. Whom I believe to be fully enlightened.

I mostly use the buddhas teachings to make sense of what’s happening to me though.

Practice wise. I dont really have a practice. My energetic process happens by itself, and is always quite intense. Meditation doesn’t even help anymore. I stopped meditating a while ago.

Used to meditate 4-6 hours a day though at one point.

Asides from the Buddha and Theravada Buddhism. Zen Buddhism is kind of good but now where near as nuanced and detailed. Very one dimensional.

The last modern teacher that helped me, whose teachings I found helpful was sheng yen. That was a while ago.

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1 hour ago, Arhattobe said:

@Salvijus The Buddha and Theravada Buddhism.

He is the only person that emphasises the end of craving, and all fear as full enlightenment. 

You mean like no cravings no aversions. Like in vippassana? End of samsaras, end of life and death. End of karma, dissolving all your karma. Is that what you consider fully enlightened?

:)

 

Edited by Salvijus

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@Salvijus No cravings I mean no conscious or subconscious tendencies. The capacity itself to feel tendencies and vasanas. It goes very, very, very deep.

You know how non dual teacher say emotions arise but their let go of easily. That’s just a calm state in which all your issues still remain. They just don’t stick. 

The complete cessation of such arisings. Reactions, and issues In an absolute way is what I call full enlightenment. 

 

Ive done a lot of practices. Started with ashtanga, and hatha, then Raja, a number of extreme breathing techniques, breath of fire, kriyas, number of gurus, everything really lol, and they each helped me. Great tools, but don’t attribute any of them to my either my awakening nor the process afterward. 

The place you are coming from, your intention, your perspective, your view, self honesty, awareness and genuinity matter far more. There are lessons you are here to learn. Are you learning them or averting your eyes. Trying to escape and live in a fantasy world.

Practices can make you study faster, but if you are not even on the right chapter they can’t take you where you need to go.

Hence the buddhas emphasis on the 8 fold path.

 

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28 minutes ago, Arhattobe said:

@Salvijus No cravings I mean no conscious or subconscious tendencies. The capacity itself to feel tendencies and vasanas. It goes very, very, very deep.

You know how non dual teacher say emotions arise but their let go of easily. That’s just a calm state in which all your issues still remain. They just don’t stick. 

The complete cessation of such arisings. Reactions, and issues In an absolute way is what I call full enlightenment. 

Interesting. Sadhguru is talking about dissolving all your karma including lifetimes of karma. Because karma or the memory of past is a thing that is ruling us. it descides what we react to and what we like and dislike.

Is this the same thing that you're talking about?

To completly dissolve karma = "The complete cessation of such arisings. Reactions, and issues In an absolute way"

Because sadhguru's last program witch is called samyama is all about dissolving karma. I wonder if this is the same thing that you're talking about. 

:)

Edited by Salvijus

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Some great questions my good friend @Facelessshared with me a while back. 

Can we obsever all the ways in which we are attached to the content of our consciousness? 

Can we see all the subtle & unconscious ways we try to immortalize ourselves in daily life? 

What is immortality? Because this is in direct relation to this content of conciousness & to death. 

33 minutes ago, Salvijus said:

the memory of past is a thing that is ruling us. it descides what we react to and what we like and dislike.

Very much related to what you posted above. The past in which has influenced a cycle of reaction (subject/object) association as being means to bring about a manufactured sense of immortality. A self feeding loop that sustains the continuity of “me”, an isolated entity who looks to objects to capture this immortality. A seeking of immortality in which denies that which is eternal as a result. Every step taken is away from that which is inherently eternal. 

 

 

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13 minutes ago, Arhattobe said:

@Salvijus Yes, but again the focus shouldn’t be on a practice imo:)

On what then? o.O

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@Salvijus “The place you are coming from, your intention, your perspective, your view, self honesty, awareness and genuinity matter far more. There are lessons you are here to learn. Are you learning them or averting your eyes. Trying to escape and live in a fantasy world.

Practices can make you study faster, but if you are not even on the right chapter they can’t take you where you need to go.” 

Hence the buddhas emphasis on the 8 fold path.

To start. Again the 8 fold path, or if they don’t vibe with you. The 4 yogas, yamas and niyamas are an alternative that although don’t have as much depth are a great start.

Edited by Arhattobe

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20 hours ago, corndjorn said:

@Matt8800 as ive said in the post, psychedelics are good tools for awakenings but NOT full enlightenment. ive had my first nondual awakening through psychs and i thank their purpose in my path, but at a certain point once youve been stabilized in nonduality sober for many years, youll see that the subconcious need for psychedelic or mystical experiences is just another attachment to be dropped, extreme and fancy experiences will never get you to enlightenment, only give u a fancy awakening. but full enlightenment is a slow delicate process of your limbic system catching up with the awakening.

Each path is unique. I would caution anyone that assumes that their path must be identical to others' paths.

The Gita points out that it is not what we do that is most important, it is our motivation. Just because someone uses psychedelics does not mean they are attached. Psychedelics are tools that can be used in many ways - it is not just for mystical experiences.

I get the impression you assume others that do psychedelics are not stabilized in non-duality (there are many levels of non-duality stabilization). That is just an assumption. Its not possible for you to know my degree of stabilization in non-duality nor how and why I use psychedelics. 

Someone once asked Nisagadatta why he was attached to smoking cigarettes. Nisagadatta's response was to ask him why he was attached to non-smoking of cigarettes. Although I dont think one can compare the massive benefits of psychedelics to smoking cigarettes, I think the point is relevant here.

Edited by Matt8800

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@Matt8800 that is true about nisrgadattas point, but i never really said psychs are bad all out and that its not relative. Ive axknowledged that psychs have many benefits but one quality of the psychedelic experience is energetic amplification. Now with amplifiying ur consciousness you can get alot of benefits such as seeing your subconcious mechanisms more clearly, awakening to nonduality, dealing with trauma, etc.. but why i say as tool its not the most conductive kind for enlightebment, is because it also amplifies your personalized emotional worlds to a large extent, and as a person stabilizes in nonduality he releases these emotional worlds bit by bit in a slow peocess until there is no longer personalized worlds, hence why nondual states get deeper with time. With psychs being an amplifier, ive noticed that it would be much harder to release those emotional worlds if psychs are used frequently, especially our blindspots. 

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1 hour ago, corndjorn said:

@Matt8800 that is true about nisrgadattas point, but i never really said psychs are bad all out and that its not relative. Ive axknowledged that psychs have many benefits but one quality of the psychedelic experience is energetic amplification. Now with amplifiying ur consciousness you can get alot of benefits such as seeing your subconcious mechanisms more clearly, awakening to nonduality, dealing with trauma, etc.. but why i say as tool its not the most conductive kind for enlightebment, is because it also amplifies your personalized emotional worlds to a large extent, and as a person stabilizes in nonduality he releases these emotional worlds bit by bit in a slow peocess until there is no longer personalized worlds, hence why nondual states get deeper with time. With psychs being an amplifier, ive noticed that it would be much harder to release those emotional worlds if psychs are used frequently, especially our blindspots. 

I think we might be using different methods and reasons for psychedelics. I look for attachments and aversions like Im on a mission and when I find them, I am merciless with them. Psychedelics to me are like a scope for a sniper so it makes it easier for me to identify, hunt down and annihilate those  "emotional worlds" once and for all.

I guess that just illustrates my point that everyone's path is different. What you found is true for you regarding psychedelics is the opposite of my direct experience. 

I dont take psychedelics for mystical experiences. When I take them, I roll up my sleeves and get to work.

Some people take the Buddhist path. Some take the yogic path. Some take the shamanic path. Some take a little of everything.

Edited by Matt8800

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2 hours ago, Arhattobe said:

@Salvijus “The place you are coming from, your intention, your perspective, your view, self honesty, awareness and genuinity matter far more. There are lessons you are here to learn. Are you learning them or averting your eyes. Trying to escape and live in a fantasy world.

Practices can make you study faster, but if you are not even on the right chapter they can’t take you where you need to go.” 

Hence the buddhas emphasis on the 8 fold path.

To start. Again the 8 fold path, or if they don’t vibe with you. The 4 yogas, yamas and niyamas are an alternative that although don’t have as much depth are a great start.

Interesting. I made some research on it. It's new to me.

But how is doing this 8fold path will help you reach absolute no cravings no aversion state.? How will it dissolve all the karma?

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@Matt8800 thats a good way to use them, ive used them like that aswell rhough il admit not all the time. But what i think the main issue is even when ur intention is to clear your karmic attachments, is that as humans we still have egoic blindspots imo, and its harder to let go of your blindspots when they are amplified to a large degree. I think even post trip those blindspots would still be amplified in a way.

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26 minutes ago, corndjorn said:

@Matt8800 thats a good way to use them, ive used them like that aswell rhough il admit not all the time. But what i think the main issue is even when ur intention is to clear your karmic attachments, is that as humans we still have egoic blindspots imo, and its harder to let go of your blindspots when they are amplified to a large degree. I think even post trip those blindspots would still be amplified in a way.

For me, when I take psychedelics, my blind spots are illuminated. When they are illuminated, I go to work on them.

I think you might have some points that psychedelics are a distraction from what needs to get done. My makeup is very different from the typical spiritual seeker however. Regardless, I agree that if people cant be honest with themselves as to what is a true asset and detriment, then they might not have the attributes it takes to reach the higher levels of awakening.

Some people need a guru. To some people, a guru is just a distraction. I see psychedelics the same way.

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@Matt8800 thats cool that its doing good for you, more power to you then. i still think there are blindspots the people miss though, its just how humans work tbh, theres things that they dont know what they are doing, but even that blindspot would eventually get dealt with i believe, either through life triggering it or by your own self reflection. and yeah you're right when you said that if people are honest about what is a true asset and detriment for them, then that will aid their path. though also to add on that, is to be open for when those assests possibly become a detriment aswell, and being able to let go of past paradigms of practice that are of no need anymore. 

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