all we've ever done, is think about our selves

[Enlightened]

That's why we're still fat, skinny, weak, sickly. While you were deciding how best to satisfy yourself, learned men, figured out your diet for you. Which I discovered on my own, through compassion. https://www.livescience.com/64530-plant-focused-diet-helps-humans-earth.html

[Michael569]

You can be on plant based diet and still be selfish and only care about yourself and your self image. Instagram is full of fake vegan posers who don't give two shits about animals or the environment and only want to present themselves as kind and "conscious"..its a very Orange move that pretends to be green...this was Jon Venus for most of his yotuube career. 

 

[Enlightened]

2 hours ago, Michael569 said:

You can be on plant based diet and still be selfish and only care about yourself and your self image. Instagram is full of fake vegan posers who don't give two shits about animals or the environment and only want to present themselves as kind and "conscious"..its a very Orange move that pretends to be green...this was Jon Venus for most of his yotuube career. 

 

lol. i fail to see your point. charlatans have existed from the beginning. why empower them. by speaking about them. let's try to find truth only.

[Enlightened]

All you see is, your own sacrifice. It means, you consider your 'self'. more than mortal. something other, than carbon. like your brother, buried in a landslide in a remote part of the world, where a landslide occurs, every few days. This is what prevents you from even aspiring to real 'fitness'. I just decided to become a diamond. From coal.

Edited January 21, 2019 by Enlightened

[Bluebird]

2 hours ago, Michael569 said:

Instagram is full of fake vegan posers who don't give two shits about animals or the environment and only want to present themselves as kind and "conscious"

 

You are vegan or not no? Rather than assume intentions, look at reality. They are vegan. That is all there is to it that you can be sure of, right?

Many people go vegan because of a fad and develop consciousness because of that. Who's to say they can't do that? No mistakes in the Universe.

[Enlightened]

9 minutes ago, Bluebird said:

You are vegan or not no? Rather than assume intentions, look at reality. They are vegan. That is all there is to it that you can be sure of, right?

Many people go vegan because of a fad and develop consciousness because of that. Who's to say they can't do that? No mistakes in the Universe.

i see. we want the answers handed to us. ok. but let me be quite clear. when you tell me, you rather not figure it out. you give me permission, to humiliate you, for not trying.

How dare you! (us) Not consider, the effect of the out of control consumption of everything! Including food. How could you not, look at a spoon of porridge, and say to yourself, "How dare I. Consume this spoonful of nourishment. When it, could feed a family. "

You should become silent. Until you can't help. But ask a question. And then only listen. And retire to ponder. And then come at it again. From a different angle.

Eventually, you shouldn't want to eat at all.

Now go ponder. It's all you people seem to be good at. i'm here when you're done.

Edited January 21, 2019 by Enlightened

[Bluebird]

@Enlightened Indeed many facets and perspectives

[now is forever]

@Enlightened the scarcity approach is not helping anyone. it can get you to a more aware state of mind but ultimately you just get auto aggressive as you are eating the aggression that is done to others additionally to what is done to them. you make yourself and maybe others unhappy btw. you make them happy as they might feel the same and feel relieved that you take all the guilt on you, so they can hate or love you instead of really doing something. but there are possibilities to find the simple life without hate for eating food others don’t have and would also eat if they could without thinking about you. it is a self delusion anybody of those people you do that for think: oh nice he is doing hunger strike for us - at least as long as you don’t do it openly. 

you could also support people by eating their food instead of something else for example.

but what you hate is not the food it is that you have to coap with that problem as you can’t look away - and you are hurting yourself for not being able to take more responsibility and try to take responsibility like that instead. what you overlook is that it’s all the effect of an attempt to change something, it doesn’t really matter what the reasons are.

Edited February 2, 2019 by now is forever

[Enlightened]

On 2/2/2019 at 6:06 PM, now is forever said:

@Enlightened the scarcity approach is not helping anyone. it can get you to a more aware state of mind but ultimately you just get auto aggressive as you are eating the aggression that is done to others additionally to what is done to them. you make yourself and maybe others unhappy btw. you make them happy as they might feel the same and feel relieved that you take all the guilt on you, so they can hate or love you instead of really doing something. but there are possibilities to find the simple life without hate for eating food others don’t have and would also eat if they could without thinking about you. it is a self delusion anybody of those people you do that for think: oh nice he is doing hunger strike for us - at least as long as you don’t do it openly. 

you could also support people by eating their food instead of something else for example.

but what you hate is not the food it is that you have to coap with that problem as you can’t look away - and you are hurting yourself for not being able to take more responsibility and try to take responsibility like that instead. what you overlook is that it’s all the effect of an attempt to change something, it doesn’t really matter what the reasons are.

This is well said. I appreciate your opinion.

When I read it, I see the self spoken about alot. It permeates every sentence. This is where you and I differ, if only temporarily.

Hunger in the world is real.

[now is forever]

1 hour ago, Enlightened said:

This is well said. I appreciate your opinion.

When I read it, I see the self spoken about alot. It permeates every sentence. This is where you and I differ, if only temporarily.

Hunger in the world is real.

i didn’t say to take away their food - it was about paying the proper amount. i wrote it a little contradictory.

yes hunger is very real. it is so real people disappear into shadows of themselves.

Edited April 16, 2019 by now is forever

[Michael569]

14 minutes ago, Shiva said:

Amen to that.

I'm still waiting for you to write a book btw. I love to read your posts. And the world of nutrition could need more people who are not just one way or the another, but are a bit more nuanced and manage to integrate different perspectives.

Cheers mate ! I am myself still confused by a lot but I think in this field it's not about "what's right" but "can you hold multiple percpective that contradict each other for long enough to modulate your own pathway?"

[SgtPepper]

Here are alternative perspectives:

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2018/aug/25/veganism-intensively-farmed-meat-dairy-soya-maize

here is a quotes from the article:

Quote

Rather than being seduced by exhortations to eat more products made from industrially grown soya, maize and grains, we should be encouraging sustainable forms of meat and dairy production based on traditional rotational systems, permanent pasture and conservation grazing. We should, at the very least, question the ethics of driving up demand for crops that require high inputs of fertiliser, fungicides, pesticides and herbicides, while demonising sustainable forms of livestock farming that can restore soils and biodiversity, and sequester carbon.

Quote

Much has been made of the methane emissions of livestock, but these are lower in biodiverse pasture systems that include wild plants such as angelica, common fumitory, shepherd’s purse and bird’s-foot trefoil because they contain fumaric acid – a compound that, when added to the diet of lambs at the Rowett Institute in Aberdeen, reduced emissions of methane by 70%.

some more articles/videos on this subject:

https://www.westonaprice.org/health-topics/farm-ranch/livestock-can-save-us/

https://www.westonaprice.org/health-topics/farm-ranch/sustainable-meat-no-myth/

 

In short, grazing animals are actually good for soil, grass, and as a result our environment.

The only thing we should do about Grasshouse emission gas is move to renewable sources of energy like solar energy, find a way to convert methane and/or carbon dioxide in either a natural way or through technological means. In addition to having more sustainable agricultural practices.

Grazing animals have been around earth the entire time, farting, eating, burping, and drinking water. and now it's a problem? 

 

Lastly, there's no evidence that high quality unprocessed red meat is bad for you. In fact it's extremely nutritious and more energy dense than any vegetable.