Liberation from Samsara

[Emanyalpsid]

Holy fuck, I was so close the whole time.

Consciousness is a manifestation of reality (this I already knew). But if you see through the illusion/mental fabrication that consciousness is even there, you are freed from the cycle of rebirth. 

Nothing really is (nothing is formed) and nothing really is not (nothing is not formed). 

If consciousness is manifested in a human body, then rebirth occurs. This rebirth occurs because the remains of a body, after it 'dies', are given back to the earth, from which new life and therefore new consciousness grows. That is what you are conscious of, a continuous cycle of rebirth of consciousness. 

First, before you start with enlightenment work, you think you die when your body dies. After you see through the self as an illusion/mental fabrication, you are left with consciousness (beyond the subject-object distinction) .You see that consciousness of the universe constantly reappears (has a rebirth), but consciousness was also an illusion/mental fabrication and rebirth also.

So no rebirth, as consciousness never really was, it was just a formless manifestation which never really was. Nothing is (nothing is formed) and nothing is not (nothing is not formed = nothing is formless). Holy meatballs..

Only through unwholesome thought, form and formless manifestations arise. Form and formless come together. Everything is indeed dependent arising (manifestation).

I just got this insight and I have not fully grasped it yet. Will need to contemplate on its implications.

After entering the eight Jhana in a meditation, I dwelled for almost 1,5 year in this state I already misinterpreted for Nirvana. Finally, full enlightenment. I was not fully enlightened after all, although I was really close. It just happened and the shift in feeling and perception is only minimal, which seems logical as there was almost no identification left, but the implications are huge.

The video from Thich Nhat Hanh, which I shared recently got me there or here, that's for sure. Bless him, without that video I would probably never even have come to this realization in this life, at least not without meeting a Buddha/Ahrat. It's a small step but a giant leap.

Here is the video, it has quite a long intro.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ms6EylTW-2o&t=103s

Sorry for all the times I pretended to be fully enlightened, I was wrong. I was quite close, but not fully there yet. I was chained by consciousness. Although I penetrated the nature of reality through consciousness, I had not let consciousness go yet. It is tricky because you need consciousness to penetrate through reality, but after that you also need to let consciousness go. But you don't see this, because it is the instrument to figure out the dependent nature of reality. But this insight into the Dependent nature of reality is a prerequisite to be able to let consciousness go..... It is what is left of you, without it you would not have been able to figure this all out, so afterwards you have trouble letting it go because it has manifested itself so deeply.

Okay, let's see if I can get some sleep lol. Have to freaking work tomorrow. 

Edited January 15, 2019 by Emanyalpsid

[Forestluv]

Your mind is conflating different levels of consciousness and is still making distinctions.

You haven’t gone all the way.

[Preetom]

@Emanyalpsid

By consciousness, if you mean the subject-object consciousness, then indeed that is the primary illusion.

This very subject-object consciousness with which we have all our perception is indeed the ego. This egoic consciousness mimics the presence of real Consciousness whose true nature is not knowing any other object but only knowing it's own being.

Knowing oneself not being this subject-object consciousness is indeed the final transcendence aka Nirvana aka Brahman. This state is called ajata, where there is no universe, ego, consciousness, categories like existence or non-existence etc in the first place

[Emanyalpsid]

I don't refer to the subject-object consciousness here, that is form consciousness. Consciousness is also formless; experienced beyond the subject-object distinction. However, this formless consciousness also does not exist. When there is consciousness, there is rebirth of consciousness. It's only a form (subject-object) and formless (beyond subject-object distinction, unable to lable) mental fabrication.

First you become conscious of nothing is, or nothingness, (nothing is formed, no self, no formation of subject-object consciousness) and then you dissolve, because nothing is not (nothing is formless).

So there is no consciousness, not in form nor formless, and therefore no rebirth.

Nothing is and nothing is not.

[Emanyalpsid]

No, I didn't practice Vipassana, but it is referred to in every Buddhist stream.

http://www.buddhismandaustralia.com/ba/index.php/The_Cessation_of_Consciousness_in_Vipassanā_Meditation_by_Ven._Bhikkhuni_Anula_Devi

From the text: "And the Buddha also explained the emergence of consciousness as a natural causal process denying that consciousness would emerge in the absence of the necessary conditions." 

The same is meant here with what I referred to: Although I penetrated the nature of reality through consciousness, I had not let consciousness go yet. It is tricky, because you need consciousness to penetrate through reality, but after that you also need to let consciousness go. 

So, consiousness has no form. It can manifest itself, but it is not really there to be perceived, it is empty in itself. But you can't say it is without form, it doesn't mean it is not there. It is just formless, the conditions are not so that it can manifest itself. It is what Thich Nhat Hanh refers to in the video, with the flame, it has no form, but it also is not without form. It only needs conditions to manifest. Hence, dependent arising.

If you plant a seed from a flower, you already know the flower is there, it however has not manifested itself yet, because the conditions to manifest itself have not met yet. The flower needs to grow first to form, before that, it is formless. So you can plant the seed and let the flower manifest, or you do not plant the seed and let the flower be formless. It doesn't matter, because the flower is nothing, it is empty but full of everything. You can't define it, because it needs everything. Just like consciousness is nothing, you can't define it, because it needs everything..

 

An instruction in the text from the link; "we should observe firstly the arising of the object and secondly the vanishing of it, then thirdly both appearing and disappearing of that object."

This means; first the identification of object arising through subject-object distinction, then venture into nothingness (no object), then venture into nothing is (nothing is formed) and nothing is not (nothing is formless). So, you go from form to formless, to no-form and no-formless.

You arrive into no-form and no-formless by letting the formless go, which is consciousness. You are dissolved. Nothing is and nothing is not.

 

 

 

Edited January 15, 2019 by Emanyalpsid

[Shadowraix]

Hey there! Glad to see you have this realization. We had a conversation on another thread about consciousness that I was about to reply to but it seems like you now understand what is being said. Happy for ya! (: 

[Emanyalpsid]

Thanks! But it is not the same, because you referred to consciousness as always being there which continues to manifest after our ego dies:

"In spirituality consciousness was there even before life even formed. So the end of consciousness in relation to humans or life in general really has no bearing here. We are made out of and created by consciousness. And when we as egos die consciousness will continue to manifest itself."

I just realized that this is just a mental fabrication (nothing) in form and formless, which you can break from. The manifestation is the rebirth. This manifestation is possible because it is there as formless, like you said; In spirituality consciousness was there even before life even formed.

Before this realization I thought the same as you, although I used other words. I referred to reality what you call spirituality consciousness and I saw consciousness manifest itself in it. So I made a distinction between reality and consciousness, which you do not.

Edited January 15, 2019 by Emanyalpsid

[Shadowraix]

@Emanyalpsid Sounds like the same thing to me just we may have built our understanding through different concepts. 

My main goal of my explanations in the other thread was to break the localization of  the word consciousness to the human brain.

Edited January 15, 2019 by Shadowraix

[Emanyalpsid]

Okay, it doesn't matter anyway. Consciousness (nothing) is and consciousness (nothing) is not. Nothing is, so consciousness, which is nothing, is formed and nothing is not, so consciousness, which is nothing, is formless. They are just mental fabrications.

Thanks for the connect and sharing!

@Mikael89 So consciousness does exist as mental fabrications. That I said there is no consiousness, was me breaking away from these mental fabrications, meaning I don't identify with it anymore. This doesn't mean they are not there, or here.

At the time I wrote that, I was still breaking away. It seems I have grasped the implications now.

Edited January 15, 2019 by Emanyalpsid

[Emanyalpsid]

It never comes (nothing is formed) and never goes (nothing is formless). The conditions through which it manifests arise or they do not, which means; you identify with it or you do not.

Edited January 15, 2019 by Emanyalpsid

[purerogue]

Can I ask you , did your mind made up this idea by watching video , or it was something you inquired from mediation? 

[Emanyalpsid]

21 hours ago, Mikael89 said:

@Emanyalpsid Okay.

You mean that you can choose whether you want to die the same kind of eternal death which materialists believe in, or choose Consciousness (Existence)?

It means I never came and will never go. Through unwholesome thought, or ignorance, the mental fabrication of consciousness arises; if you are consciousness (manifestation), you must come from consciousness (formless). That is the identification, that is the rebirth.

This mental fabrication comes again and again, as long as it keeps manifesting itself, meaning; as long as someone identifies with consciousness. Everytime consciousness manifests in a fabrication, it is there, but you can't say it was not there if it has not manifested. Just as the flower is already present in the seed. It just hasn't manifested itself, because the conditions are not met.

To break through this, you have to see that consciousness is nothing. From your point of view consciousness is, but the manifestation of consciousness can't be defined, as it needs everything, so it is nothing (empty) on itself. And consciousness is formless, which is also nothing (empty), as it needs everything. If you see it is nothing, you will not identify with it.

You need insight into dependent arising to see this.

 

Edited January 16, 2019 by Emanyalpsid

[Emanyalpsid]

16 hours ago, purerogue said:

Can I ask you , did your mind made up this idea by watching video , or it was something you inquired from mediation? 

It was something I inquired through meditation.

There are two questions which seem suitable for inquiry into this. The first; 

What is conciousness?

After you have found the answer to this question, you can ask the last question; 

What is?

If you didn't find the right answer to the first question, you will end up back at the first question if you answer the second question.

 

If someone wants to inquire into this, I will be happy to help the best I can.

Edited January 16, 2019 by Emanyalpsid

[Emanyalpsid]

I see that I in writing the first post, I wrote a rather vague description.

I referred there to "formless manifestations", with that I meant that the formless is present in other form manifestations. Form is a manifestation of the formless.