List of Role Models for Every Spiral Dynamics Stage

[kieranperez]

27 minutes ago, zambize said:

Are you sure Marcus Aurelius and Socrates belong in blue?  What was your reasoning for this placement?

Marcus Aurelius is a very healthy embodiment of Blue. Even if you read Meditations you can see how he takes deep nondual understanding of God, nonduality, and Consciousness into a healthy blue perspective (which is all that Spiral Dynamics is mapping). This is not a knock on Marcus Aurelius at all. He is a very good example of strong healthy Blue in a time that was pretty much Red. You can have deep full nondual understanding and still be lower on the spiral. Remember, Orange, Green, Yellow hadn't even emerged yet. These are very new developments in perspective, world view, motives, and values (which is all Spiral Dynamics is tracking). Stoicism itself is a very healthy Blue (kinda Orange) philosophy which really values things such as: 

• Honor
• Self-restraint
• Dignity
• That sense of being the upstanding valiant one
• Moral & emotional composure
• Submission of one's self-interest to one's state (country, land, territory, government, etc.)

So on and so forth. Marcus Aurelius and his Meditations is a great piece to go back and work on remnants of positive Blue that people might not have fully worked through.

I definitely wouldn't put Marcus Aurelius or even maybe people like The Buddha at Turquoise. Nondual understanding of all of reality doesn't really make you Turquoise. Turquoise is world-centric and people take for granted that there were still things such as slavery involved in that time. People completely take that for granted just to put these people on a pedestal. That's not to take away from The Buddha or any sages of that era and to say he was evil or bad. No. That was their time. That was the world view, perspective, etc. and full blown enlightenment doesn't really change that (more often than not). There was no Turquoise at that time because the world wasn't as connected as it is now where our society today is more all encompassing. Thus we have greater perspectives. 

Full blown enlightenment, understanding, and even embodiment DOESN'T automatically = Turquoise. The manner in which you embody God and the lens in which you view God depends upon one's level and stage in Growing Up, as Ken Wilber put's it. Sure there's correlation between deep non-dual understanding and mastery and Turquoise (or I should say, Turquoise has some apparent correlation to deep non-dual understanding) but as it's even said in science, correlation doesn't = causation. 

[zambize]

2 minutes ago, kieranperez said:

Marcus Aurelius is a very healthy embodiment of Blue. Even if you read Meditations you can see how he takes deep nondual understanding of God, nonduality, and Consciousness into a healthy blue perspective (which is all that Spiral Dynamics is mapping). This is not a knock on Marcus Aurelius at all. He is a very good example of strong healthy Blue in a time that was pretty much Red. You can have deep full nondual understanding and still be lower on the spiral. Remember, Orange, Green, Yellow hadn't even emerged yet. These are very new developments in perspective, world view, motives, and values (which is all Spiral Dynamics is tracking). Stoicism itself is a very healthy Blue (kinda Orange) philosophy which really values things such as: 

• Honor
• Self-restraint
• Dignity
• That sense of being the upstanding valiant one
• Moral & emotional composure
• Submission of one's self-interest to one's state (country, land, territory, government, etc.)

So on and so forth. Marcus Aurelius and his Meditations is a great piece to go back and work on remnants of positive Blue that people might not have fully worked through.

I definitely wouldn't put Marcus Aurelius or even maybe people like The Buddha at Turquoise. Nondual understanding of all of reality doesn't really make you Turquoise. Turquoise is world-centric and people take for granted that there were still things such as slavery involved in that time. People completely take that for granted just to put these people on a pedestal. That's not to take away from The Buddha or any sages of that era and to say he was evil or bad. No. That was their time. That was the world view, perspective, etc. and full blown enlightenment doesn't really change that (more often than not). There was no Turquoise at that time because the world wasn't as connected as it is now where our society today is more all encompassing. Thus we have greater perspectives. 

Full blown enlightenment, understanding, and even embodiment DOESN'T automatically = Turquoise. The manner in which you embody God and the lens in which you view God depends upon one's level and stage in Growing Up, as Ken Wilber put's it. Sure there's correlation between deep non-dual understanding and mastery and Turquoise (or I should say, Turquoise has some apparent correlation to deep non-dual understanding) but as it's even said in science, correlation doesn't = causation. 

"Turquoise has some apparent correlation to deep non-dual understanding) but as it's even said in science, correlation doesn't = causation. "

I don't know if I would use science as an argument to whether someone is at a stage that has largely transcended science (IMO), but I still think I know where you are trying to go with that.  I appreciate the post, I read it for the sub arguments and points and piece together my own whole, so even though I wouldn't say I agree 100%, that's okay, I appreciate you taking the time to type this out.  You seem educated haha

 

[kieranperez]

30 minutes ago, zambize said:

I don't know if I would use science as an argument to whether someone is at a stage that has largely transcended science (IMO)

Don’t get hung up on the reference to science. I’m referring to the principle of how correlation doesn’t equal causation. Spiral Dynamics is a model that’s a result of science (there’s different types and levels of sciences). But again, keep in mind that I’m referring to the principle. You can be fully enlightened and embody it in your life and even be at levels such a purple because embodiment and mastery can really be dependent upon the culture and perspective you’re surrounded by, grew up in, etc. 

This is why Ken Wilber for example keeps hammering the point that Waking Up (enlightenment/spiritual work), Growing Up (his more all encompassing Spiral Dynamics), and Cleaning Up (psychological work, shadow work, therapy, ego work, etc.) need to be treated as 3 separate endeavors. Sometimes evolution and progress in 1 of those 3 pillars pours into 1 or 2 of the other pillars but for the most part they are separate. 

The one thing I will say I find interesting is that enlightened people pretty much always seem to fall into all of the ethnocentric stages on the spiral. I have a few good guesses and thoughts as to why this is but I don’t want to say I know. 

[1x0]

There is a serious gender weighting problem in these lists. Leo's lists suffered from the same.

[bejapuskas]

@zambize @kieranperez  I feel like one has to master all the stages. A person can think like a yellow individual, but that doesn't mean that he has mastered the discipline of blue and marketing skills from orange for example... Correct me if I am wrong.

[bejapuskas]

@1x0  You can add Mother Theresa to the list  

[now is forever]

3 hours ago, 1x0 said:

There is a serious gender weighting problem in these lists. Leo's lists suffered from the same.

a balanced list would include cultural and communal ethnological group teachings. the list is imbalanced, too, because it has a focus on individuals.

Edited December 26, 2018 by now is forever

[Krisena]

Healthy Red:

The unadultered search for dominance and willingness to compete is still useful in sports and work, given that the system you work within is designed to handle it.

Standing up for yourself so that people don't walk all over you - which they always unconsciously and instinctively do unless you signal some sort of danger (Jordan Peterson: "the capacity for wreaking havoc") - is necessary.

The willingness to fight ferociously for your own or your loved ones' survival is also important.

Healthy Purple:

Recognizing that having a healthy home base of people you trust and who you feel safe with is a precursor for doing more courageous things.

Having something to fall back on when your venture fails.

Rituals and sacrifices that strengthen the community - especially noteworthy now during Christmas.

[kieranperez]

12 hours ago, bejapuskas said:

@zambize @kieranperez  I feel like one has to master all the stages. A person can think like a yellow individual, but that doesn't mean that he has mastered the discipline of blue and marketing skills from orange for example... Correct me if I am wrong.

No one is saying you have to master anything. You're just going to be more evolved and have a more developed foundation of development. So if you want that by all means do it but you don't have to. 

Integration is important if you wish to move up in your development. 

I do want to throw out there, and as far as my 2 cents goes, don't try and confine your life to having to fit some model. You're not living to serve a model. This model is 1 tool in your tool belt. Spiral Dynamics isn't supposed to be used as some way of crafting some fantastical perfect person (which I see a lot of people treating it and thus suffering needlessly over it). 

[Forestluv]

Keep in mind that values are expressed differently at each stage and the underlying motivational drive also shifts.

For example, the value of authority primarily enters at stage Blue. Yet, the meaning of authority matures up the spiral and is expressed differently in Blue vs. Yellow stages.

[Hellspeed]

Best role model will be integrating humanity as a whole with every bit of it, good and bad. This is the only way to transcend. 

[now is forever]

9 hours ago, Hellspeed said:

Best role model will be integrating humanity as a whole with every bit of it, good and bad. This is the only way to transcend. 

ok, so now we reached the maximal entropy ?

still these lists seem to be a really good method to get aware about how spiral dynamics teachings/role models are represented in individuals of different gender - you will find that women teachings/role models are often more part of group teachings - and group teachings are often more holistic.

Edited December 27, 2018 by now is forever

[Hellspeed]

7 hours ago, now is forever said:

ok, so now we reached the maximal entropy ?

still these lists seem to be a really good method to get aware about how spiral dynamics teachings/role models are represented in individuals of different gender - you will find that women teachings/role models are often more part of group teachings - and group teachings are often more holistic.

Well, SD is useless to identify one with it, is a tool to build a capitalist/factory based society, nothing much. Idols will always be idols and limited. Categorization and models of other people are a great toll for someone to get stuck in their BS and mind, 

[now is forever]

@Hellspeed be careful the ice is thin 

there are other things to criticize than the possibility to walk over water.

Edited December 27, 2018 by now is forever
does bs stand for butts? or for big self?

[Dan Arnautu]

58 minutes ago, Hellspeed said:

Well, SD is useless to identify one with it, is a tool to build a capitalist/factory based society, nothing much. Idols will always be idols and limited. Categorization and models of other people are a great toll for someone to get stuck in their BS and mind, 

That's a rather limited/black and white way of looking at it.

[Shroomdoctor]

@Dan Arnautu Great Thank You fir this list

[now is forever]

1 hour ago, Dan Arnautu said:

That's a rather limited/black and white way of looking at it.

unfortunately that black and white thinking/looking is rather going in the direction of turquoise to orange. in this case you can’t choose what colour who is.

Edited December 27, 2018 by now is forever

[Hellspeed]

@now is forever @Dan Arnautu

Is just a fact for the awakened.

So, i commited to not lie anymore  

What you guys are saying applies to the dormant state, that is all.

[brugluiz]

Marina Abramović is a Green role model for me.

[Dan Arnautu]

54 minutes ago, Hellspeed said:

@now is forever @Dan Arnautu

Is just a fact for the awakened.

So, i commited to not lie anymore  

What you guys are saying applies to the dormant state, that is all.

Do you still wear socks in the awakened state?

Disregard the spiral at your own peril.