How to be wise

Conflict between Enlightenment and Life Purpose

132 posts in this topic

@Joseph Maynor Byron Katie was eating a cake in her mother’s funeral. People demonised her for this.

Believe it or not, it’s possible to be directly conscious of this heaven no matter what situation you’re in. The radical stories of people who are doing The Work is coming out.

If you’re interested in living this truth, The Work is your best bet. We’re not talking decades, we’re talking months/years.

 


"Not believing your own thoughts, you’re free from the primal desire: the thought that reality should be different than it is. You realise the wordless, the unthinkable. You understand that any mystery is only what you yourself have created. In fact, there’s no mystery. Everything is as clear as day. It’s simple, because there really isn’t anything. There’s only the story appearing now. And not even that.” — Byron Katie

 

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@Joseph Maynor Byron Katie can go anywhere with this:

 


"Not believing your own thoughts, you’re free from the primal desire: the thought that reality should be different than it is. You realise the wordless, the unthinkable. You understand that any mystery is only what you yourself have created. In fact, there’s no mystery. Everything is as clear as day. It’s simple, because there really isn’t anything. There’s only the story appearing now. And not even that.” — Byron Katie

 

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5 hours ago, How to be wise said:

It hasn’t come to me to commit suicide.

I follow the Voice within myself without resistance. 

Alright. Imagine that voice/force directing someone towards a life purpose and enlightenment both. It's not an egoic thing, it's an effortlessly flowing through life without resistance thing, just as it takes zero effort to not commit suicide. 

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@Consilience life purpose is not egoic. It’s just that, when I follow my life purpose, I find myself planning ahead, and not following that Voice.

Planning ahead is the egoic act. You are in the illusion that there is a future. 

If my Voice tells me to research how to open a business, or gain some skill, I will effortlessly follow that. That is the clear mind.


"Not believing your own thoughts, you’re free from the primal desire: the thought that reality should be different than it is. You realise the wordless, the unthinkable. You understand that any mystery is only what you yourself have created. In fact, there’s no mystery. Everything is as clear as day. It’s simple, because there really isn’t anything. There’s only the story appearing now. And not even that.” — Byron Katie

 

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Effort is for function, that’s it. 

Planning is a tool, if one wants to use or apply thought that is its function. To anticipate/control. 

Its the psychological evolution(seeking wholeness) in the mechanism that projects its image of wholeness within the means of anticipation/control. That is where the issues arise. 

 

Edited by Jack River

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5 minutes ago, Jack River said:

Its the psychological evolution(seeking wholeness) in the mechanism that projects its image of wholeness within the means of anticipation/control. That is where the issues arise. 

What does that mean?


"Not believing your own thoughts, you’re free from the primal desire: the thought that reality should be different than it is. You realise the wordless, the unthinkable. You understand that any mystery is only what you yourself have created. In fact, there’s no mystery. Everything is as clear as day. It’s simple, because there really isn’t anything. There’s only the story appearing now. And not even that.” — Byron Katie

 

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10 minutes ago, How to be wise said:

What does that mean?

The ego seeks a sense of wholeness/security/permanence/certainty in its projection(future) goals.

Seeking happiness in the things of thought (purpose/meaning) and then pursuing as such. 

But to do that the ego pushes happiness/security off in a “future” moment and prevents it now. 

The ego depends on time/thought to bring about wholeness, but to depend on time/thought sustains a fragmented existence(incompleteness). 

To perpetually project peace/happiness in a “future” moment(continual suffering in the present). 

Edited by Jack River

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@How to be wise

What if planning ahead is part of the whole package that comes with the 'Voice'?


''Not this...

Not this...

PLEASE...Not this...''

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The point is total freedom first. Because until then fear determines all action or non-action.  

As long as there is a mechanical existence, there will be contradiction/conflict and a sense of incompleteness no matter what. Also we will contribute to disorder in society by the actions we do or do not take. 

Maybe Total Freedom is the ultimate purpose heh. 

Edited by Jack River

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@Jack River I agree

@Preetom That will never happen. ‘Planning ahead’ is a very vague, un understandable phrase. It only arises out of fear of the illusion of future.

The Voice will give you direct, understandable instructions. E.g. brush your teeth, go to the kitchen, make food. 


"Not believing your own thoughts, you’re free from the primal desire: the thought that reality should be different than it is. You realise the wordless, the unthinkable. You understand that any mystery is only what you yourself have created. In fact, there’s no mystery. Everything is as clear as day. It’s simple, because there really isn’t anything. There’s only the story appearing now. And not even that.” — Byron Katie

 

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2 hours ago, How to be wise said:

@Consilience life purpose is not egoic. It’s just that, when I follow my life purpose, I find myself planning ahead, and not following that Voice.

Planning ahead is the egoic act. You are in the illusion that there is a future. 

If my Voice tells me to research how to open a business, or gain some skill, I will effortlessly follow that. That is the clear mind.

So it’s the planning ahead aspect... Contemplate what planning actually is then. It’s not necessarily living as though there is a future. It could also be processing a possibility, one possibility out of infinity. 

 

Afterall, life/form is impermanent. Thinking about the future is really just the conceptualization of form that hasn’t actually manifested outside of the mind. “Planning” is like witnessing just another form of reality within the domain of mind and need not have anything to do with seperating from now. In fact, the concept of future is literally only available right now. The future does not exist because all is happening now but form is impermanent and may take an infinite number of forms. “Planning” too is one such form reality can take but it happens now. So basically, I disagree that planning necessarily means you are living in the illusion of a future. You have to first understand the existential nature of “planning” and then the illusion will begin to crack.

 

Planning is witnessing potential form manifest inside of the mind RIGHT NOW. It is egoic, but all acts of survival and really any action at all is egoic. But watching the ego unfold and survive does not necessarily mean one is caught in the illusion of a seperate self just as planning does not necessarily mean one is caught in the illusion of time. This magy be difficult to understand but maybe try.

 

Life purpose and enlightenment dont contradict anymore than actively surviving as a body/not committing suicide and enlightenment. Nor does planning. Enligtenment is understanding the absolute nature of what a “plan” is or what the “future” is or what “survival” is. Just because these concepts play out, it does not mean one is caught in their illusory nature. Not really how else to describe it. Just watch the act of planning, the act of life purpose, the act of survival from a metta perspective. Any form could potentiate into direct experience and none of it need to seperate one from the truth. 

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@Consilience All I do is follow the Voice’s instructions. 

Doership is an illusion. You are not in control of your body. So planning ahead and survival shouldn’t concern you. 

The Voice is intelligent. If it wants you to research something it will tell you. Any ideas about planning will be brought by the Voice at the perfect time. Stop concerning yourself with it.

YOU need to let go of all control and doing, so that the Voice can take over. YOU have no choice at all.


"Not believing your own thoughts, you’re free from the primal desire: the thought that reality should be different than it is. You realise the wordless, the unthinkable. You understand that any mystery is only what you yourself have created. In fact, there’s no mystery. Everything is as clear as day. It’s simple, because there really isn’t anything. There’s only the story appearing now. And not even that.” — Byron Katie

 

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8 minutes ago, How to be wise said:

All I do is follow the Voice’s instructions. 

Who/what is this “I” that is following the instructions of the “Voice”?

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On 27/12/2018 at 8:57 PM, fewrocker said:

Great topic and discussion! I fell into this trap, but now I can see it. This can be one of the most dangerous traps of the spiritual path.

 

Inactivity is not enlightenment. Spirituality as an excuse to become lazy might be worse than activity without presence, because if you know spirituality at least you know that you're doing the wrong thing. Activity and consciousness go hand in hand. Reality is already perfect. But the consequence is not that you should do nothing. But that your actions should flow with the perfection. Unenlightened action will go against the perfect flow

 

How can actions flow against perfection? If everything is perfect, and it is, then there is no "wrong" or "right" actions. You can do horrible things and it won't go against perfection, doing horrible things won't glitch reality or make it not perfect. Control is an illusion. Everything we do is in alignment with the divine. We as human beings are a manifestation of infinity. We are not separated from it, we are it, and therefore control is an illusion. No actions can separate you from what you truly are. 

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7 minutes ago, traveler said:

How can actions flow against perfection? If everything is perfect, and it is, then there is no "wrong" or "right" actions. You can do horrible things and it won't go against perfection, doing horrible things won't glitch reality or make it not perfect.

You describe absolute unconditional perfection. There is also relative conditional perfection. 

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6 minutes ago, Serotoninluv said:

You describe absolute unconditional perfection. There is also relative conditional perfection. 

Can you elaborate, please? 

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4 minutes ago, traveler said:

Can you elaborate, please? 

You are perfect in this and every moment. 

You are a work in progress toward perfection.

 

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Even though the suffering is an illusion, it doesn't hurt to make a life purpose that will make others aware that it's only temporary. (And, of course, help reduce / cure the suffering.) :)

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@Key Elements it does hurt. It’s the story of a future.


"Not believing your own thoughts, you’re free from the primal desire: the thought that reality should be different than it is. You realise the wordless, the unthinkable. You understand that any mystery is only what you yourself have created. In fact, there’s no mystery. Everything is as clear as day. It’s simple, because there really isn’t anything. There’s only the story appearing now. And not even that.” — Byron Katie

 

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37 minutes ago, Serotoninluv said:

You are perfect in this and every moment. 

You are a work in progress toward perfection.

 

So what you're saying is that we're already perfect, but at the same time we are working towards perfection? Please, correct me if I'm interpreting you answer wrong. 

I don't see how you could be a work towards perfection, when everything already is perfect as it is.

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