Michael569

Yellow can hold 2 contradictory opinions at the same time?

38 posts in this topic

Leo said something in those terms in the SD Yellow video.

The question is, how do you hold completely two contradictory opinions without going completely bonkers? I carry a lot of confusion in my mind, lots of topics where I am uncertain what to believe in but usually I am more inclined towards one or the other. But believing in 2 contradictory things seems like an impossible thing. 

 

Can you believe and not believe that earth is flat? Can you believe in Darwinian evolution & book of Genesis at the same time? Can you agree that the planet is warming up and also that the global warming is BS? 

Don't give me any nondual explanation, most yellow thinkers are not there yet. 

I might have misunderstood the whole point but got me curious. Thoughts? 

 

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I'm not any expert on spiral dynamics, but you can acknowledge both thoughts while yellow for sure. There is a lack of need for defending a stance in yellow. You aren't as interested in it as before. You are going bonkers if you think you need to defend one or the other, or come to dumb and impulsive conclusions about the other being right. If this is not the case, you are fine thinking both thoughts to be valid in their own sense

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I hold a belief that there is inequality between the payment of women and men. Statistically, women are paid less than due to things fully unrelated inequality but to strong identities people hold in their life. In a perfect world, women and men would be paid equal whether they worked at a nursery or CEO of an oil company.

In the contrary, I hold the belief that the previous statement is bunch of crap because if women were paid less than men, then you would dominate markets by only hiring women. It would give you immense market dominance if you could pay only 80% to your workers instead of the full 100% pay.

There is so much going behind these two statements and their causation that I feel like deeming one false and one truth is shutting my mind from understanding neither. This is why I hold these both beliefs, because they both are true and false in different conditions, so they are neither false or true. Kind of like agnostism.

Honestly, I don't know if this is meant by holding two contradicting opinion. Its just my take on it.

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Which one, is the best music ? game : listen all. Respect the rules and listen them in order.

 

 

 

Game : Answer here after listening

 

if you answer the 3rd, you lost

:D 

Edited by Strikr

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7sbw__MsJZ0

We know nothing, and even, I m not sure. a.V.e

 

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@Michael569 I think you can

1) hold two contradictory hypotheses instead of beliefs (either global warming is human-induced or not, some people are not sure)

2) use two different models to describe the same thing, kinda like wave-particle duality

3) hold contradictory beliefs which are contextual: eg. in general I believe that people should dive into their emotional world and sort out their childhood shit, but if I see someone lost too much in his head, I believe he or she should take some real-world action instead.

Another example, I believe there is a physical world made of matter governed by physical laws, but I realize for some people everything is spirits, so if I go do a shamanic ritual, I'll do my best to dive into a different metaphysics for a few hours (point 2 or 3). 

I'm probably not solid yellow, but I see this capacity increasingly developing in myself. Just notice how you switch between paradigms, if you do. 

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3 hours ago, Michael569 said:

Leo said something in those terms in the SD Yellow video.

The question is, how do you hold completely two contradictory opinions without going completely bonkers? I carry a lot of confusion in my mind, lots of topics where I am uncertain what to believe in but usually I am more inclined towards one or the other. But believing in 2 contradictory things seems like an impossible thing. 

 

Can you believe and not believe that earth is flat? Can you believe in Darwinian evolution & book of Genesis at the same time? Can you agree that the planet is warming up and also that the global warming is BS? 

Don't give me any nondual explanation, most yellow thinkers are not there yet. 

I might have misunderstood the whole point but got me curious. Thoughts? 

 

The more you try to impress people, the less impressed they’ll be.

The more afraid you are of death, the less you’ll be able to enjoy life.  One gained through wisdom and experience.

The more you learn, the more you realize how little you know.  Another gained through wisdom, experience and investment into something.

Fighting violence with violence often just leads to more violence and doesn't solve the issue.

You can spend your whole life trying to amass wealth, only to leave it all behind when you die.

There are objects.  There are no objects.  Both are 100% true, but you have to have the wisdom and experience to grasp this.

Nothing on its own ground, but can be individually appreciated.

 

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4 hours ago, YaNanNallari said:

There is a lack of need for defending a stance in yellow. You aren't as interested in it as before.

@YaNanNallarithis actually makes a lot of sense !

@Strikr I don't think I'm getting the message :D 

1 hour ago, Elisabeth said:

) use two different models to describe the same thing, kinda like wave-particle duality

@Elisabeth haven't thought about it this way, thanks for sharing your perspective.  I like all the points you made. Perhaps its not about holding two completely different opinions that lie on very far extremes of the opposite poles but rather something in between,

@Mu_ aren't these more like counterintuitive statements? They seem more like mindfucks but maybe I don't see the meaning behind them, 

@Hansu this is an excellent example and I would not be able to come up with more accurate depiction of 2 contradicting opiion if I tried really hard. 

 

Thanks for all your comments folks, I think this is getting a bit clearer now ^_^

 

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I'm not really yellow but I think it's kinda the realizations that perspectives create reality. Taking your example of the earth that would mean if you took the 2-Dimensional perspective the earth would be flat but if you take the 3-Dimensional perspective then it's round if you take a 4-Dimensional perspective you get a different shape and if you move away from Dimensional perspective and move to the experiential perspective then it's flat again. If you look out of the window the earth looks and behaves like a flat object. So saying that the earth is flat is true in some sense but it's still partial just like saying that it's round. Holding conflicting views then means that you are holding 2 perspectives that don't seem intersect.

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@Michael569 Once the mind is comfortable with two perspectives, it’s like “why stop at two?”. Then, the chains come off and several contrasting perspectives/opinions - can reside in the mind - and then all perspectives.

Yellow cognitive modes are so much more fun than Orange modes. Orange is like having to work overtime hours on a holiday. Yellow is like being on vacation and exploring.

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3 minutes ago, Serotoninluv said:

@Michael569 Once the mind gets the knack of holding two perspectives, it’s like “why stop at two?”. Then, the chains come off and the mind can hold several contrasting perspectives/opinions - and then all perspectives.

Yellow cognitive modes are so much more fun than Orange  (linear logic and reasoning becomes boring ime).

it's not even sustainable, sounds like non sense to hold.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7sbw__MsJZ0

We know nothing, and even, I m not sure. a.V.e

 

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19 minutes ago, Strikr said:

it's not even sustainable, sounds like non sense to hold.

It’s not holding in the sense of work - like holding onto something. It’s more like perspectives/opinions are free to appear in the mind and disappear - with no identification or attachment.

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Just now, Serotoninluv said:

It’s not holding in the sense of work - like holding in to something. It’s more like perspectives/opinions are free to appear in the mind and disappear - with no identification or attachment.

hoooo I see now :D 


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7sbw__MsJZ0

We know nothing, and even, I m not sure. a.V.e

 

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Yellow can hold 2 contradictory opinions at the same time?

That is the nature of the spiral(the self). One progressive movement/continuity in one direction or another adopting a variety of perspectives/opinions.

An accumulation of contradictions with the assumption that all of the many perspectives/opinions/contradictory points of view can be integrated to form a coherent whole. 

The self in its very nature thrives off holding countless contradictory desires/opinions/perspectives. 

The question is can there be a seeing that they are all conditioned by the past. 

Edited by Jack River

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4 minutes ago, Strikr said:

hoooo I see now :D 

Thanks, you make a good point . The word  “holding” isn’t useful because it implies grasping or attachment. 

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Stage yellow people doesn’t hold a lot of opinions. But a lot of possibilities. Some things can be proved by logic and facts though like 1+1. Or global warming, but getting to the right ‘fact’ require you to have no bias or opinion to begin with. An example would be Albert Einstein and his theory of relativity. 

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Belief & opinion are ego, meaning is attached, change feels threatening. Perspectives though, are free of identification.  Try them on like shoes. 


  Nonduality & Meditations         

Empty your head, fulfill your heart       

 

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@Nahm At the food market, I had a basket full of fruit. Not once did a fruit say to another “I am right, you are wrong”. As well, no piece of fruit looked at me to say “You can only take one of us. Choose one and make it you”. . . Those issues weren’t present . We just co-existed in harmony. ☺️

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@Michael569 @Michael569 If I had to take a guess I'd say that maybe the yellow person realises that each perspective about something has no inherent truth value to them and it is because of that that someone who is yellow acknowledges and can use multiple perspectives. I like what Nahm said about different perspectives just being different shoes. Maybe the yellow person doesn't actually "believe" in any of the perspectives, he just sees the perspectives. Maybe in life he is just acting out on different perspectives he knows he cannot be certain of to be true but he's stopped worrying about because theres no point in worrying.

Another random thought I have is that this might be related to strange loops and the fact that certain things are hard to verbally articulate. Things which can be viewed as being completely in opposition to each other can also be more similar than you think. 

Edited by lmfao

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