The battle between heart and the self (fear)

[Charlotte]

13 minutes ago, zambize said:

also I'm glad there are more than 2 corners in a room otherwise we wouldn't be able to be in the same room D:, love me some corners

Oh my god 

 

I had to try and imagine a room with one corner and now my head hurts ?

[zambize]

6 minutes ago, Charlotte said:

Oh my god 

 

I had to try and imagine a room with one corner and now my head hurts ?

room in the shape of a tear drop <3

[Charlotte]

@zambize well yeah! God I'm stupid at times ?

By the way you raise some interest in activism, would you be interested in vegan activism? Anonymous for the voiceless have these cubes nearly everywhere and I was wondering they might actually have one where you live. 

9 hours ago, now is forever said:

where would you go if there wasn’t a corner at all?

I'd stand with my back against the spherical wall as far back as poss ?

Reason I brought this up to begin with is because I feel this has to do with being 'safe' being able to 'get a feel' to the room in a safe space. It's something maybe I should delve into further.

[Charlotte]

What can I say?

do I need to say? 

or can you just feel with me? 

how beautiful this all is... How majestic and sacred 'this' is. I thank everybody I meet no matter what they bring. I thank everything I pass on my travels as I ride this wave of life. How can I ever show my gratitude for what I have? For the feet that carry me, for the ego that protects, for the fear that guides me to eternal love.

There is nothing else... You need nothing... You have everything... You are everything. See this now and you will see you're love, you will feel compassion like you have never before, you will be gratitude. Everybody you meet is perfect, smile at them through your eye's and extend this compassion to them, walk over the earth and give it back what it gives to you, give it love and grace. 

Witness this. 

Be this. 

Awaken to the miracle around you, in you, through you... You.

???

[zambize]

3 hours ago, Charlotte said:

@zambize well yeah! God I'm stupid at times ?

By the way you raise some interest in activism, would you be interested in vegan activism? Anonymous for the voiceless have these cubes nearly everywhere and I was wondering they might actually have one where you live. 

I'd stand with my back against the spherical wall as far back as poss ?

Reason I brought this up to begin with is because I feel this has to do with being 'safe' being able to 'get a feel' to the room in a safe space. It's something maybe I should delve into further.

No you're not stupid, actually I shouldn't make assumptions that's rude, you could be stupid but I think you're great either way

As far as vegan activism, my diet is actually more vegetarian than anything.  I'm certainly interested in animal rights and think there is a lot of suffering that can be addressed.   I just don't know that this specific group would be a great fit for me because I'm not actually vegan myself

Also I was scrolling through their fb page, got some interesting stuff haha.  That cow is thick

 

@now is forever If there isn't a corner, I'd just leave.  Not actually, just the back row probably.  I just don't want to be the center of attention, I also find it more fun to watch all the funny mannerisms people do

[Charlotte]

@zambize may I ask what's stopped you at vegetarianism? 

So true @now is forever ?

[Charlotte]

This week has been fucking brilliant 

Yesterday I combined reishi with a microdose of magic mushrooms and I literally felt a miniscule ego death. I was walking the dogs and this fear energy penetrated 'me' then it just erupted into love. Because I was able to observe everything rather than Identify it just flowed. When the love came I cried so deeply. People must think I'm fucking nuts (bet this is why people think other people look nuts ?) 

Then the blissful feeling passed and it was just still, like an uninterrupted still lake. 

The whole day I observed action without thought. It was fucking mental. I was doing things without thinking ? this shit was slowing I tell thee. 

I also started fasting again. I had fasted yesterday before microdosing so I'm wondering if that had any positive effects to the dosage. Either way I'll keep upping the dosage. 

When I went to Madeira I met a guy. Our hearts where old friends. You could feel it. We became such good friends in the space of 4 days. He's not long arrived in London so I've just booked a hostel and a return ticket for this Saturday-Monday to go and see him. He's really woke this guy. He's originally from Canada, he's absolutely hilarious. Looking forward to that. 

This morning I am going meeting friends to study for 3 hours. 

Will catch up later ?

[zambize]

6 hours ago, Charlotte said:

@zambize may I ask what's stopped you at vegetarianism? 

So true @now is forever ?

Because I think the dairy industry can and is often done right,  I grew up in a more rural town where there were a lot of farmers, and seeing the way they treat their animals and cared for them made me feel like there is a place for the industry.  It's complicated because there are farms that I feel treat their animals well and I'm comfortable buying milk from them, and also farms that don't look after the well-being of their animals.  I think this is why it's kind of a sticky issue for me, because in practice you can't separate the two.  I'm certainly buying milk from both people that abuse their animals, and people that take really good care of their animals. I would say overall my choice is based on a mix between being exposed to what I saw as healthy farming and also that I just really like dairy and it's an important part of my diet.  It's something I'm still thinking about, I definitely want to limit the suffering I cause others, but me wanting to live will kill others.  Even going vegetarian, there are animals that are going to die when they are kicked out of their homes in place of a farm field to grow vegetables.   So I really see all methods of nutrition as something that will end up in the suffering or death of some other creature, and see dairy as one of the better methods.  I live in a state which revolves around it a bit, so I definitely have my bias but that's a rough idea

[Charlotte]

@zambize these farms you speak of zambize that treat there animals well... I'm genuinely curious... Do they artificially impregnate their cow's? Do they take the calf away from there mother? Do they still pump the animal with hormones? What I'm curious in is do these good farms even exist? 

I don't think animals will be kicked out of anywhere really though, I think they just stop breeding as many animals for slaughter the less meat is bought. 

I understand your point though don't get me wrong. 

[Charlotte]

I can see the ego at play in daily life. In obvious ways. 

I'm sat talking to people and it's staring me in the face like I'm looking at a pane of glass. I can see the lies, the subtle ways in which 'I' remain. Ego is more noticeable when conversing with others because that's where the BS comes out to play the majority of the time. 

I can literally feel the pull of the BS wanting to sprout and flourish ?

Starting microdosing again was one of my more strategic moves.

[zambize]

2 hours ago, Charlotte said:

@zambize these farms you speak of zambize that treat there animals well... I'm genuinely curious... Do they artificially impregnate their cow's? Do they take the calf away from there mother? Do they still pump the animal with hormones? What I'm curious in is do these good farms even exist? 

I don't think animals will be kicked out of anywhere really though, I think they just stop breeding as many animals for slaughter the less meat is bought. 

I understand your point though don't get me wrong. 

AHhh lot of questions.

I'm not sure on a lot of it, it was more of a general sense of being a good farm in that the animals looked happy and comfortable.  They had good outside space and their indoor facilities were clean.  As well as an intuitive sense that the farmers actually cared about their animals.  

They probably do artificially inseminate although I have no idea,  I watched a cattle artificial insemination to try and get a sense of how the animal felt about it.  It seemed moderately uncomfortable, but nothing more than kind of shifting around, and it was all done rather quick.  I'm curious as to if that's done in a really harmful way sometimes or there are other reasons against that, but it seemed pretty mild compared to some stuff I've seen from farms

As far as taking calves away from mothers, I also don't know, it's not something you ask farmers.  Looking it up online it seems like 20% or so of farms will kill off the baby males, although it was really hard to find a good number cause it's kind of a "dirty secret" apparently.  

I think also when I consider what happens if the dairy industry just dies overnight.  It's not like those animals are going to be kept as pets, and they won't survive out on their own.  If a dairy farm closes tomorrow because they aren't making money, those cattle are just going to be slaughtered or shipped off to another dairy farm, rinse and repeat. On one hand, it ends a cycle of being raised for slaughter, and on another, it would just lead to an extermination of basically every domestic cow.   I think that's part of the reason I lean towards wanting to improve the industry, instead of just shut it down completely

What have I gotten myself into 0-o  only for you I guess <3

[Charlotte]

@now is forever oh aye! Send the recipe my way. Thanks so much! 

15 minutes ago, zambize said:

I'm not sure on a lot of it, it was more of a general sense of being a good farm in that the animals looked happy and comfortable.  They had good outside space and their indoor facilities were clean.  As well as an intuitive sense that the farmers actually cared about their animals

Do you think maybe this could just be an assumption on your part? 

16 minutes ago, zambize said:

They probably do artificially inseminate although I have no idea,  I watched a cattle artificial insemination to try and get a sense of how the animal felt about it.  It seemed moderately uncomfortable, but nothing more than kind of shifting around, and it was all done rather quick.  I'm curious as to if that's done in a really harmful way sometimes or there are other reasons against that, but it seemed pretty mild compared to some stuff I've seen from farms

It's all the infections that come along with it. Imagine a women being pregnant 24/7. The pressure, disrupt and turmoil it would create on her body and life. I know women that where relieved when the 9 months were over never mind a life of it! ? Yeah I'm not pointing at the actual insemination (although it does play a part) I'm more pointing to rest of the animals life. Being constantly pregnant, hammered with hormones and antibiotics for the rest of her poor days. 

19 minutes ago, zambize said:

As far as taking calves away from mothers, I also don't know, it's not something you ask farmers.  Looking it up online it seems like 20% or so of farms will kill off the baby males, although it was really hard to find a good number cause it's kind of a "dirty secret" apparently.  

Yeah 20% is pure bs as I'm sure you're aware ? I've physically seen mother's go after their calves when the calves are being holstered by a mini digger away from her. 

22 minutes ago, zambize said:

I think also when I consider what happens if the dairy industry just dies overnight.  It's not like those animals are going to be kept as pets, and they won't survive out on their own.  If a dairy farm closes tomorrow because they aren't making money, those cattle are just going to be slaughtered or shipped off to another dairy farm, rinse and repeat. On one hand, it ends a cycle of being raised for slaughter, and on another, it would just lead to an extermination of basically every domestic cow.   I think that's part of the reason I lean towards wanting to improve the industry, instead of just shut it down completely

Let's be real dude. It wouldn't die overnight would it... I mean from the points you raise I'm glad it won't ? less demand over a realistic timescale would give everything a chance it needs to change slowly. Also there are many many people opening sanctuaries for animals saved from slaughter. Also there are farmers even opening sanctuaries ?  

 

Like I said... Demand and supply chain ??

Can you elaborate what you mean by 'improve' please? 

[zambize]

7 hours ago, Charlotte said:

@now is forever oh aye! Send the recipe my way. Thanks so much! 

Do you think maybe this could just be an assumption on your part? 

It's all the infections that come along with it. Imagine a women being pregnant 24/7. The pressure, disrupt and turmoil it would create on her body and life. I know women that where relieved when the 9 months were over never mind a life of it! ? Yeah I'm not pointing at the actual insemination (although it does play a part) I'm more pointing to rest of the animals life. Being constantly pregnant, hammered with hormones and antibiotics for the rest of her poor days. 

Yeah 20% is pure bs as I'm sure you're aware ? I've physically seen mother's go after their calves when the calves are being holstered by a mini digger away from her. 

Let's be real dude. It wouldn't die overnight would it... I mean from the points you raise I'm glad it won't ? less demand over a realistic timescale would give everything a chance it needs to change slowly. Also there are many many people opening sanctuaries for animals saved from slaughter. Also there are farmers even opening sanctuaries ?  

 

Like I said... Demand and supply chain ??

Can you elaborate what you mean by 'improve' please? 

By improve I mean a lot of the points you've made, taking calves away from mothers and killing them, nonstop pregnancies, etc.  Standards of living for the animals.  I think there is a lot of unnecessary suffering, and I'll definitively be taking time on my own to consider my choice knowing the conditions at a lot of farms.    That being said, I don't this is a situation that ends in a bunch of cows and calves roaming around in sanctuary farms. even though it's heart warming to see people show so much love for animals.  There are apparently 94.4 million cows in the U.S., and if there wasn't a market for their meat or dairy,  I can't imagine more than a few tens of thousands of them being kept in sanctuaries or as pets.  The population of cows is tied to their financial viability.  That's not to say we shouldn't end the dairy/meat industry if they are causing a lot of suffering, but I think it's important to see that this cycle ends with just about every single cow dying, and whether that happens over a couple years or a couple decades, people want dogs not cows, and enough dogs already die because they are unwanted.  

As far as it being an assumption on my part, of course it could be.  We are different kinds of animals with different social needs and ways of experiencing reality, it's as much of an assumption that they are calm as it is that they are suffering in the same way humans.  It was just a general sense based on how animals seem to me when they are calm, but of course I could have misread the situation 

[DrewNows]

2 hours ago, now is forever said:

well they don’t know an alternative. (dogs also don’t know an alternative) they have always only seen the farm they grew up in. i wonder if they would change if they would get to watch movies about slaughter houses. they sometimes go wild though if they smell blood.

i only ever realized how protective we are about our food habits after i went vegan. and i still sometimes eat eggs. but i know exactly where they come from. you see...

This is an interesting subject. I mean what’s the difference between animal suffering and human suffering?

Could these animals even be able to distinguish different alternatives? Something so valuable we can learn from animals is their ability to accept what is (there situation) and not get caught up in the past or future of how we think it should be because it simply cannot be any other way, not in this moment 

[DrewNows]

@now is foreverhaha good point! Could be a direct reflection of the way we treat ourselves, like society. We can only change society by changing ourselves and I suppose it only exists because we do ?

That play sounds like it could be an ? opener. What’s really been hitting me hard lately is the fact that everything we think we need to do is selfish no matter what kind of spin we put on it 

 

[DrewNows]

19 minutes ago, now is forever said:

@DrewNows well, yeah depends on the size of the self, probably.

not sure what you mean by this, do you mean collective self and what depends? 

@Charlotteseems impossible not to take our human prejudices out of viewing the lives of other species. I think you posted on activism a while back. I suppose it has pros and cons like everything but it seems actual suffering always stems from identification/attachment to a belief. Does being vegan give you a sense of identity? 

[Charlotte]

@DrewNows I genuinely accept what goes on with animals I do, it couldn't be any other way and I actually see that. It took me a while but I managed to accept it through love but at the same time I don't accept it to the point where I won't do anything about it. It seems like a counterintuitive comment I understand that. I am not suffering being vegan I would just like to make a change for the better.

[Michael569]

2 hours ago, Charlotte said:

I genuinely accept what goes on with animals I do, it couldn't be any other way and I actually see that. It took me a while but I managed to accept it through love but at the same time I don't accept it to the point where I won't do anything about it. It seems like a counterintuitive comment I understand that. I am not suffering being vegan I would just like to make a change for the better.

That's a very Yellow approach to veganism, well done ! Acceptance does not equal ignorance and one can still take part in making the world a better place without becoming a bleeding heart and pain in the ass of other people. 

[Charlotte]

2 hours ago, Michael569 said:

Acceptance does not equal ignorance and one can still take part in making the world a better place without becoming a bleeding heart and pain in the ass of other people. 

Egbloodyzactly. Couldn't of worded it better myself. ? 

[DrewNows]

All I’m sayin is we like to project our own suffering onto animals instead of trying to understand how they function/operate and behave. I was just listening to this podcast they we’re talking about how the Everglades python population has came into existence and skyrocketed  in the last 10-15 years and there are hardly an raccoons or small mammals left so they are going after gators now. One was ingesting a gator and the gator split the snake open and survived with the help of another gator. They commented how nature is so brutal. We humans can be naive enough to think we are above it all