I am not enlightened, but further than all that claim such a thing. Ask me anything

[SOUL]

1 hour ago, zambize said:

Not really a fair comparison cause the Buddha didn't have a forums to talk shit on

Buddha did have a forum to talk on..... it just took place under a bodhi tree and his words were carried away by the wind but written down by others.

[zambize]

24 minutes ago, SOUL said:

Buddha did have a forum to talk on..... it just took place under a bodhi tree and his words were carried away by the wind but written down by others.

That sounds more like a classroom than a forums, going to have to disagree, Buddha didn't have a forums

[SOUL]

8 minutes ago, zambize said:

That sounds more like a classroom than a forums, going to have to disagree, Buddha didn't have a forums

"forum:

a public meeting place for open discussion"

...but your disagreement is is duly noted. HAHA

[WindInTheLeaf]

@Arhattobe if someone by his karma is on the road to 'Jesus' but is deceived by Mara into waking up, such that any karma is released and turning him from becoming what he may have been destined to, would this be a break from what was meant to be or was that deceit meant to happen? Can anything happen that was not meant to be?

[Arhattobe]

Sounds dramatic. Your scenario, but things happen as they should. Will expand on that in a future thread maybe:)

[CreamCat]

8 hours ago, Arhattobe said:

0 karmic impressions

What is karmic impression?

8 hours ago, Arhattobe said:

The more you see clearly, and the clearer your vision, the clearer their pain, and the clearer their pain. The less triggered you’ll be:)

Do you mean that you will feel hurt by insults in the moment but will not amplify the pain into the future with your negative thoughts? What do you mean by their pain? The pain of trolls and psychopaths?

Edited December 6, 2018 by CreamCat

[WindInTheLeaf]

@Arhattobe hehe yes perhaps a bit overdramatic you be the judge of that, but sometimes the middle is more easily seen by its extremes. Perhaps turned down a notch:

If some guy, on his karmic path towards becoming whatever he might be becoming, is awakened before he reaches his end, could this cause confusion on a cosmic scale(as in cause ripples in the karmic seas), and offset whatever balance he might have been part of as his karmic self, or can there be no such interference no matter the way his karma is released?

If someone no longer bound by karma, by believing he is doing right, pulls you out of your karmic path, out of the cave and into the light, could it offset some balance and change the course of things in a negative direction (opposite than intended thus slowing down the process of collective awakening in the attempt to speed it up).?

Don't know if the questions changed from the previous in my attempt to ask in a different, less dramatic way, now there are two where there before was one, perhaps next time they will merge back into a new and better version of the first haha.

[zambize]

4 hours ago, SOUL said:

"forum:

a public meeting place for open discussion"

...but your disagreement is is duly noted. HAHA

By that definition Mcdonalds is a forums, I mean come on, when did the word "forums" become so loosely used, this is getting out of hand

[purerogue]

The thing is that Non-dual state is not what you are looking for, it have very little to do with Enlightenment, it just experience you can pursue to clear your doubts, to reach real Enlightenment you have to clear your ego from emotional  attachments to  ideas, so you can experience this world again from eyes of infant , but still having knowledge that  ego has no control of, entering non dual state without these problems solved, you still have ego issues, that is why so many of them get stuck and do horrible things, they think that they solved it when they got there, but your body still has ego memory and acts accordingly to it. 

That is how I see it at least 

Edited December 6, 2018 by purerogue

[luckieluuke]

14 hours ago, WindInTheLeaf said:

Just start being truthful, while at the same time untangling whatever trauma might be lying in your past

Thanks for you lengthy response. You are absolutely right in everything you said and I know I can get tangled up in the goal rather than the journey at times.
However my response to this topic is similar to what you say:
We don´t need a detailed view of the goal so this discussion here is rather pointless. Why try to understand the "10 ox picture" when you´re at a lower picture?
 

[Arhattobe]

@CreamCat No. If a child with cancer call you something you won’t be hurt because you see their hurt. They are acting out in pain. In the beginning you don’t feel that even if you know it intellectually, but then you feel and your intellect doesn’t play a role anymore.

@WindInTheLeaf Karma is released gradually because lessons need to be learned, shift in to non dual states or higher states can be representative of milestones, and can lead to faster karmic burn rates but won’t rid you of all your karma. 

You can awaken, and then through wrong actions start gaining a ton of karma though. 

Not sure if I understood your question correctly though.

[Anton Rogachevski]

"The monk who becomes enlightened will go to hell straight as an arrow." Zen tradition

Edited December 6, 2018 by Anton Rogachevski

[outlandish]

On 12/3/2018 at 4:57 PM, Arhattobe said:

Theravada Buddhism is by far the most advanced teaching in existence. 

@Arhattobe So, painting any teaching as "by far the most advanced teaching in existence" throws up some major red flags for me, but I'll suspend my disbelief and ask: why do you say so?

[Arhattobe]

@outlandish 

Hindu based traditions : Too many too count. All over the place. No complete, consistent, coherent body of teaching or lineage. 

None have a full picture understanding. Most are one dimensional. Has been perverted over time. 

Abrahamic religions : limited by the god concept who is an external humanised authority figure, cultural nonesense, perversion over time.

Sikh tradition : Limited by the god concept, and it’s view of god. That is closer to truth than all other god centered traditions.

That leaves Jainism and Buddhism. Jainism is pretty good, pretty closish to theravada Buddhism but illogical at times and inferior to a degree than Buddhism. 

That leaves Buddhism:

which was split up into 

Theravada and Mahayana

Mahayana then gave birth to chan (zen) and Vajrayana (which gave birth to Tibetan Buddhism.)

Vajrayana and the parts of mahayana it was birthed out of focus to much on mind phenomenon, Siddhis, heaven realms, devas and light bodies and due to that suffers from not being as direct. With most practitioners getting too caught up in phenomenon with they enter high levelled mystical states.

Chan, and Zen Buddhism focus too much on awakening, and lack nuance.

Theravada is the most consistent body of teaching, the oldest, least perverted and most nuanced:)

[outlandish]

@Arhattobe Cool thanks. I'm with you for the most part there. I'm a bit more of a relativist when it comes to the superiority of one teaching over another. I suppose you're not claiming superiority of theravada, just advanced-ness, which is a separate thing.

I reckon there's no perfect teaching, just like there's no perfect pair of jeans. Just different fits. I genuinely believe that the abrahamic traditions are the right fit for certain cultures/people at their current stage. At some point, over generations, those won't be a good fit any more, or the religions themselves will have to evolve.

See, from my perspective, theravada buddhism often seems too cluttered with irrelevant intellectualizations, lists upon lists of things that were perhaps culturally relevant at one time, but are just dead wood at this point. So what seems like nuance and authenticity to you might look like clutter and distraction to me.

I'm not bashing on theravada *at all* here, you're right that it's very advanced and can take people at least as far as any other teaching. There's a good reason vipassana is so popular these days; it works.

Anyways, you make a good case, I just think you might be putting your preferred teaching on a pedestal.

[WindInTheLeaf]

@Arhattobe what I'm getting at is that if you are on some kind of karmic momentum and find yourself being misled by 'Mara'/'Devil'into waking as you enter the lucid part of your dream-journey - the final stage of your path - such that you lose yourself and whatever lessons were still to learn as yourself before becoming no one, would this be considered a break from your karmic path? Lets say you were not meant to reach enlightenment, at least not when you did, (there might have been psychedelics involved or something of the like) and seeing there is nothing that needs changing makes you lose your motivation to fight for change effectively leaving the world a fighter short?

 

[Arhattobe]

@outlandish Yes. Mooji was more helpful to me to awaken that people way beyond him, but again his teachings are one dimensional, filled with falsehoods and etc. Theravada is the most advanced meaning It touches upon all aspects of life. Realms of experience. Traps. Stages, and nuances that aren’t touched upon in any teaching. Within theravada I recommend the sutta pitaka.

I will make a thread and post relevant suttas there later.

@WindInTheLeaf Your thought pattern and reasoning is kind of incoherent and all over the place. Sorry. I don’t understand your point.

[StephenK]

@Arhattobe Do you consider yourself to be an Arhat (given the name Arhattobe)? What do you think of those that claim to be an Arhat, such as Daniel Ingram? Do you actively practice Vipassana and Samatha meditation? What do you think of self-inquiry as a practice? Any book recommendations?

Edited December 7, 2018 by StephenK

[WindInTheLeaf]

@Arhattobe good, there is no point to be understood. Another question arises in the chaos that is my mind: how do I know that what I see as making sense and what I see as incoherent nonsense is in fact so? That what I believe to be up is not down and what I believe to be right is not in fact wrong? That what I believe is chaos is not in fact a harmony I lack the vision to see? 

[Arhattobe]

@StephenK Certainly not an arhat. Arhat to be doesn’t mean I am but (hopefully) will be. 

Ones facial expression, facial tension and overall look communicates the level of karmic tension in one’s body. As you progress and get to higher states the tension level of people or lack thereof becomes noticable.

I do not know Daniel Ingram, but based on that he certainly seems like he has a long way to go. 

People that claim to be arhats are completely clueless to how much karmic baggage they have and how “deep the rabbit hole goes”.

I have not seen a single teacher in modernity I would consider an arhat. The closest people would be Master sheng yen, Ramana, Suzuki. Based on physical tension and energy reading.

I do not actively do any sort of practice, but do recommend vipassana.

In regards to self inquiry it is active and thought based its pointless. With that line of inquiry or the understanding you have of it in the back of your mind. Meditating can be fruitful though.

Book wise : Oshos pathless path is a good for those not awake/beginners, but I recommend a more holistic approach once you are actually on the path. 

Check out accesstoinsight.org 

and their summary of the Theravada path for that

@WindInTheLeaf Your intellect is running amok thinking it’s going to get somewhere meaningful. It will not.