Time isn't real & you won't experience life as everyone individually

[lmfao]

@Roman Edouard

11 minutes ago, Roman Edouard said:

I think I stared at Leo's face longer than I've stared at any one else's face in my life time. Whenever I look at it it's different from when I look at any other face. Hard to explain though lol.

LOL. I can relate. I think he's one of the few people I'd fanboy over. 

Edited December 2, 2018 by lmfao

[Nahm]

43 minutes ago, lmfao said:

@Nahm

Well that's hard to answer. When I read your question its like you're asking me how language and definitions are formed, and to that I would say I don't know. "Illusion" is word that has a different meaning to different people, depending on the context they hear it in, what connotations they have with the word, what other words they know and etc. And to then try and describe what it means to ascribe meaning to words, my answer is who tf knows. I have no clue why words are processed the way they are.

My cheeky answer to your question is "because I said so". This is simply the way I look at things, I can't verbally articulate to you why. 

In regards to the bit you quoted of me, something that I think I am currently incapable of adequetly defining is "resistance". I have, what is in my view, no good way of describing it off the top of my head.

NGL answering this question feels a tad bit gay. It's like I've just danced around with words and said nothing of substance LOL. I feel like a fraud :p. I just need to shut my mouth and meditate. 

I agree. 

1 hour ago, Nahm said:

How do you know an illusion “causes resistance to reality as it is”?

 “Causes resistance to reality as it is” - is just a belief. It doesn’t actually say anything. But now you know that, so...

2 hours ago, lmfao said:

@Nahm

To me, an "illusion" is any belief or distortion in awareness that causes resistance to reality as it is. 

 You’re much closer. 

Have you googled the definition of illusion?

 

[Nahm]

1 hour ago, Roman Edouard said:

Believing an illusion is a coping mechanism to avoid understanding an uncomfortable fact. Therefore, it is resistance reality.

The question was, what is your definition (connotation) of the word, illusion. (Vs why we hold beliefs)

I see your point though, it’s a good one. But, what if resistance is the opposite? You might not know, if you’re holding on to a belief.

[lmfao]

49 minutes ago, Nahm said:

“Causes resistance to reality as it is” - is just a belief. It doesn’t actually say anything. But now you know that, so...

What you quoted is no more of a belief than anything else. I still think what I said about what an illusion is relatively useful as a pointer to something but you of course have your view of things. Just because I can't define every word I use in a sentence doesn't mean that the sentence is useless as a pointer. As an overall impression, I can't help but feel a pointless game (ie it is non conducive to actually getting to a point) is being played with the line questioning and reasoning you've been posting. I don't see why you're trying to question my precise descriptions of a concept so vague and hard to pin down when I don't even take my own descriptions too seriously. I don't take the words seriously, I'm just coming up with them because you asked me to. Some things are beyond being able to simply explain with words. 

Edited December 2, 2018 by lmfao

[Nahm]

2 minutes ago, lmfao said:

What you quoted is no more of a belief than anything else. Right.

I still think what I said about what an illusion is relatively useful as a pointer to something To what?

but you of course have your view of things. Just because I can't define every word I use in a sentence doesn't mean that the sentence is useless as a pointer. Your meanings are very important, without them you’d have no more delusion      (awakened / enlightened)

As an overall impression, I can't help but feel a pointless game (ie it is non conducive to actually getting to a point) is being played with the line questioning and reasoning you've been posting. Well yeah, if you give up from frustration, of course.  I hear you though, I’ll piss off. ??☺️

 

[Roman25]

I just thought of something. If we are everyone including things that aren't human then aren't we all mass serial killers? Whenever you push your teeth or take a shower you're killing millions/billions of germs. So isn't the very existence of a person something bad? Bad doesn't exist imo but I'm sure you guys know what I'm getting at.

[Roman25]

13 hours ago, Leo Gura said:

It does not make sense to you because you are not awake.

If you woke up you'd immediately know that you are all creatures (and non-creatures) in the universe. This is not a theory or a conceptualization. It is the Absolute. But only if you awaken.

You don't need to become every creature to know this, you just need to wake up to what you are. To wake up is to become the entire universe and all objects in it.

At the moment of awakening you realize that you will reincarnate infinitely, forever. Because you cannot die. This means the big Self, not the ego. The ego was a fiction to begin with. It never was. But the big Self takes on infinite forms.

None of this has evidence. I'm a bit of a skeptic so it's hard to convince me of certain things. I care for science far more than spirituality since science takes the best guess with the existing evidence. Spirituality makes a lot of broad statements with nothing to back it up. Saying that "you aren't awake" or "you are all creatures" or "all objects are infinite" has absolutely no evidence to back up.

I read that "What Enlightenment isn't" and most of them are beliefs as well. And some of them aren't real. Like "emotional mastery". You can't master your emotions.

Edited December 2, 2018 by Roman Edouard

[Speedscarlet]

@Leo Gura I know that that’s what you said.

But when you say to us “in the next reincarnation you will be Hitler”, who else could you be talking to but our egos? 

Your first slight of hand was to call it ‘transcendental I’ rather than your usual ‘absolute infinity’. The absolute isn’t personal to me, me and Hitler are both the absolute, at the same time (there is no past or future). If me and Hitler are both the same, how could one die and the next be born. You clearly said that when we die, we will reincarnate into the next person. But we already are them! Right now! 

Why are you introducing a future. We both know that the future will never come. That video had A LOT of flaws. I don’t even know where to begin.

Please don’t talk about things that you have no grasp of. You’re not enlightened. That’s already bad enough.

[Leo Gura]

Quote

Edit: I do not know if other people in my conscious experience are centres of conscious experience or are not centres of conscious experience. Either way, the thoughts and actions of my ego  are as much me as the actions of other people. However, I do not know if these other conscious beings exist and have thoughts to begin with. To believe such a thing is to be conceptualising. All I know for certain is that reality, which is me, is this cloud of thoughts, feelings, sensations and is just a happening. 

Like I said, you don't know because you are not awake.

Quote

What do you mean by "forever"? "Forever" implies the existence of a infinitely extended past and future. The notion of "forever" is rooted in the concept of "time". I might come across as pedantic but I think I'm pointing to something important. 

Forever = eternal = prior to time = infinite time

Zero time and infinite time are the same thing.

Quote

Who knows if the big self it will take on an infinite number of forms. The way "I" see it , all I know for certain is that the big Self has the one form in my present moment experience because the past and future don't exist. The idea that reality is in flux and hence constantly changing form is an illusion if you accept that time is an illusion. 

Again, because you have not yet has a direct experience of God.

On 12/2/2018 at 3:20 AM, lmfao said:

You can't prove that other people have their own POV and their own thoughts. God is everything in your direct experience, right now. As far as God is concerned, the thoughts of other conscious beings do not exist!

God is not limited to your present limited experience. God is not solipsism, as you think.

As far as God is concerned, it is EVERYTHING.

But you still don't understand what that means because you lack the direct experience of God.

The only solution here is to have a direct experience of God. You're not going to understand it using your mind, arguments, or proof.

It is not necessary for me to see every object in the universe for me to know that I am every object in the universe. You are assuming it is. That is a false assumption.

It is possible to become conscious that you are all things that have ever lived or will ever live. For example, I once became conscious that I was the dinosaurs. I did not have to become a pterodactyl to do that.

Yes, all of this sounds impossible.

[lmfao]

@Leo Gura The way I see it is that we can hold all sorts of practical models for reality and the universe (like materialism and rationality) but if we're gonna chase enlightenment then we have to see through the models and from my perspective you're perhaps confusing models of reality as being foundational to reality. That's because I don't see how solipsism can be disproven.

10 hours ago, Leo Gura said:

Like I said, you don't know because you are not awake.

Within reality all the you have are experiences. How would any combination of experiences (whether related to awakening or not) show you that there exist other centres of conscious experience in spite of the fact that everything experienced by reality is just in your one consciousness (which would hence leave the question of whether other conscious beings exists to be an unknown)?

10 hours ago, Leo Gura said:

Forever = eternal = prior to time = infinite time

Zero time and infinite time are the same thing.

I feel you

10 hours ago, Leo Gura said:

 

10 hours ago, Leo Gura said:

It is not necessary for me to see every object in the universe for me to know that I am every object in the universe. You are assuming it is. That is a false assumption.

It is possible to become conscious that you are all things that have ever lived or will ever live. For example, I once became conscious that I was the dinosaurs. I did not have to become a pterodactyl to do that.

Yes, all of this sounds impossible.

Suppose you a have an object in front of you in a room and you can see it. Now lets suppose you close your eyes. As far as reality is concerned, the sight of that object doesn't exist only the thought of the sight of that object exists when your eyes are closed. How is it that you're defining the word "universe" here? I'm gonna be assuming that you're using "universe" to refer to "reality". If something is not in your direct experience (you alluded to this by talking about objects that you can or cannot see) then on what basis can you say that something (e.g. other objects) exist? I agree with you that you are every object in the universe, I just don't understand why you seem to be saying that the universe includes things which are not in your direct experience. 

From my perspective your belief that you were a dinosaur is not rooted in your present moment experience. 

10 hours ago, Leo Gura said:

God is not limited to your present limited experience.God is not solipsism, as you think.

Isn't this first sentence of yours contradictory to the basic truth/premise that all that exists is the present moment? The present moment isn't "limited" because the present moment is all that exists. And going back to my second paragraph in this post, I don't think that you can prove or disprove the existence of other conscious beings. 

(Direct experience)/(the present moment) is all that exists. The thoughts and theories I'm typing are just a happening in the present moment.

 

 

Edited December 6, 2018 by lmfao

[Girzo]

@lmfao You are running in circles.

Look at your present moment, it changes constantly, sometimes radically. What makes you believe that it cannot morph into another person's experience? In fact, it could do it 1 000 000 times every second and you wouldn't know it, becuase every time you would be back to "yourself" that doesn't know about that.

And if it can do that, why not go a step further and assume that it radically changes infinitely many times in infintely short amount of time, resulting in being everything at the same time.

You won't get a proof for anything by hitting a keyboard, but by doing the practices. And no-one can do them for you, but you.

[purerogue]

Time is very real, just because it is all dream so to say , does  not make it less real, you can experience time differently, slower, faster , events run independent of time we experience. 

Edited December 6, 2018 by purerogue

[purerogue]

It is like for example human construct of 10 h

We all know what is 10 h on clock, it is always the same 10 h on clock for all of us 

But it gets tricky when we are talking about our own experience of time, for some of us thous 10 h might feel like very  long time, but for another person experiencing same 10 h can seem very fast. 

[lmfao]

2 hours ago, Girzo said:

@lmfao 

Look at your present moment, it changes constantly, sometimes radically. What makes you believe that it cannot morph into another person's experience? In fact, it could do it 1 000 000 times every second and you wouldn't know it, becuase every time you would be back to "yourself" that doesn't know about that.

And if it can do that, why not go a step further and assume that it radically changes infinitely many times in infintely short amount of time, resulting in being everything at the same time.

You won't get a proof for anything by hitting a keyboard, but by doing the practices. And no-one can do them for you, but you.

On 02/12/2018 at 5:24 PM, Nahm said:

 

@Girzo Im not making the claim that my experience couldn't morph into "another person's" in the next moment of experience (if a next moment even exists), I am stating that I can never know that to be true because everything that is experienced is always experienced in one consciousness. Reality is this completely uncaused, spontaneous present moment. There is something rather than nothing so anything is indeed possible. My posts should boil down to me saying that from my perspective, Leo's statements are perhaps not rooted in "actuality". The point of contention is just unimportant at the end of the day tbh. 

And from non-dual experiences I've had I genuinely think it's very possible that time and even flux doesn't exist. I'm not just being a keyboard warrior here. I think seeing through flux is something you get a glimpse of when going super deep into consciousness. I think it's the sort of thing that happens when your awareness merges with God. It accompanies the "realisation" that reality is completely uncaused and spontaneous with literally nothing at its foundation, at least for me. It accompanies seeing through time. 

Edited December 6, 2018 by lmfao

[purerogue]

Only logical explanation for it would be that nothing is everything that will ever be to scale that you can not imagine and there is no time in nothing , as it contains everything.But then again that is as far as logic can bring you, it might be something that logic is not capable of  comprehending. 

Edited December 6, 2018 by purerogue

[lmfao]

@purerogue

5 minutes ago, purerogue said:

But then again that is as far as logic can bring you, it might be something that logic is not capable of  comprehending. 

Logic uses words and concepts. Words and concepts are a subset of the present moment happening that is reality. Words and thoughts are a part of reality in the same way that colors and sounds are a part of a reality. There is no more inherent truth value to a concept then there is to sound because both these things have the same origin, which is nothing/God. "you" neither created the thoughts or the sounds you experience. 

Edited December 6, 2018 by lmfao

[Girzo]

@lmfao I have zero idea what you are getting at. 

10 minutes ago, lmfao said:

(if a next moment even exists)

You can frame it however you want, as many consecutive moments or as a one continous moment, that's your distinction. However no distinction can change it's nature, that is the present experience changes. It doesn't stay the same even for a brief moment. You are not some seashell animal that can't notice it.

[purerogue]

The thing with time  and with everything is just nothing in core, perspective if you want to use word that could be close to your understanding.

Is this person good or bad

YES, NO , NEITHER, NOTHING as it is everything. 

[lmfao]

@Girzo

9 minutes ago, Girzo said:

@lmfao I have zero idea what you are getting at. 

You can frame it however you want, as many consecutive moments or as a one continous moment, that's your distinction. However no distinction can change it's nature, that is the present experience changes. It doesn't stay the same even for a brief moment. You are not some seashell animal that can't notice it.

As much as an unbelievable and utterly huge mindfuck it is I just believe flux is an illusion and you'll see it if you reach a deep non-dual state. You don't have to believe me from my posts, just do what you think is best. 

Edited December 6, 2018 by lmfao

[purerogue]

But do not get confused, just because it contains everything that will ever happen does not mean that you have no free will , or that you have one, it is neither, it is nothing and everything as well.