SoonHei

Question: Leo's 10 Ox Herding Pics Video

72 posts in this topic

17 minutes ago, WelcometoReality said:

I've heard that for some people there is no satori. The self just gradually withers away into nothing. So gradual that one does not even notice it taking place 

Yeah there are cases like that as well. Suzuki Roshi was such an example.

Once his students asked him why he never talks about his own enlightenment experience. His wife stood up from the back and replied, ''Because he never had one''.

Really the reaction of body-mind towards Clear seeing/Enlightenment varies a lot from person to person. That's why no specific phenomenal experience should be taken as some sort of standard or inherent in Enlightenment.

Edited by Preetom

''Not this...

Not this...

PLEASE...Not this...''

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3 minutes ago, Shin said:

It kind of feels like that.

I'm confused with this model because I'm supposed to be at stage 2 (no mystical experiences, just glimpses), but at the same time I recognize myself in the later stages a lot.

i‘m not sure yet but it feels like if you are zooming in, to one of the pictures it is a pixeled screen made of all ten pictures again. so somehow it is possible to have a sense of how it could be at one picture while still being stuck at another one. it somehow reminds me of the spiral.

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3 minutes ago, now is forever said:

i‘m not sure yet but it feels like if you are zooming in, to one of the pictures it is a pixeled screen made of all ten pictures again. so somehow it is possible to have a sense of how it could be at one picture while still being stuck at another one. it somehow reminds me of the spiral.

Everything is possible I guess, at least I'll have done the homework years in advance ???


God is love

Whoever lives in love lives in God

And God in them

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21 minutes ago, Shin said:

Everything is possible I guess, at least I'll have done the homework years in advance ???

who says you have to count from one to ten. could be a countdown, too.:ph34r:

but seriously it doesn’t make sense just to reflect on the pic‘s, think it’s easy to trick oneself to believe to be further ahead as we really are.

and what if you would try to grab the ox by the balls - i mean would it all turn out the same way?

Edited by now is forever

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41 minutes ago, Shin said:

It kind of feels like that.

I'm confused with this model because I'm supposed to be at stage 2 (no mystical experiences, just glimpses), but at the same time I recognize myself in the later stages a lot.

Do you have a certain notion or expectation about what a mystical experience might be? Have you pondered about it in details..preferably by writing it?

Is it possible that you heard about a 'bull' but after all the chasing, it turns out to be a duck or something else :ph34r:

How would you respond to that?


''Not this...

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PLEASE...Not this...''

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guess we are having an introduction to kōans...i mean it is a certain way of reflecting about pictures isn’t it? 

Edited by now is forever

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41 minutes ago, Preetom said:

Do you have a certain notion or expectation about what a mystical experience might be? Have you pondered about it in details..preferably by writing it?

Is it possible that you heard about a 'bull' but after all the chasing, it turns out to be a duck or something else :ph34r:

How would you respond to that?

Do you mean I could already had them, but minimized them because it wasn't as amazing as I thought ?

Another thing I pondered about, what if some people can grasp conceptually the truth so well, that no mystical experiences could shock them ?

When I read some post here and there about how disturbing their experiences are, It kinda looks impossible.

Also, I doubt the truth can be even close to what you imagine it to be, so by definition we're supposed to be mindfucked .

???


God is love

Whoever lives in love lives in God

And God in them

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7 minutes ago, Shin said:

Do you mean I could already had them, but minimized them because it wasn't as amazing as I thought ?

Yes exactly. Can you refer to a thought in this issue when thought itself is invalid from the first place? 

9 minutes ago, Shin said:

Another thing I pondered about, what if some people can grasp conceptually the truth so well, that no mystical experiences could shock them ?

I shared my thoughts on exactly this issue in this post. Take a look if you feel like it. The thing is, we never know how the body-mind will react to Truth. No particular phenomena should be treated as a standard or inherent to the actual Truth. Anything can happen! (that included nothing happening as well :ph34r:)

 

13 minutes ago, Shin said:

When I read some post here and there about how disturbing their experiences are, It kinda looks impossible.

Usually most of that happens when someone has no solid intellectual background. We all worked out through that phase 3-5 years ago when some increased heartbeat during meditation would knock our balls off!

15 minutes ago, Shin said:

Also, I doubt the truth can be even close to what you imagine it to be, so by definition we're supposed to be mindfucked .

exactly! that's the issue!

when you finally submit to this brutal truth that ''Anything perceivable or conceivable cannot be me. Whatever I imagine or think, is not it'', you cease to obsess about phenomenal experiences that come and go; no matter how gross or subtle or fantastical is feels. Your attention keeps on relaxing and sinking into it's source, the Self.

As long as you have mental positions, of course you'll experience shocks and mindfucks as those cherries pop one by one through repeated inquiry 


''Not this...

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PLEASE...Not this...''

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Shinzen Young explains: The first 5 pictures are the enlighment journey. Picture 7 , arriving home , is the final stage. However, the last three come after. Substance, Form , Purpose are pictures 8,9, 10.

Substance : nothingness.

Form : everything.

Purpose:  spreading the consciousness through act of love and giving from bottom of society. That's only my interpretation and limited understanding.

Correction.

Edited by Samra

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@Samra are you sure? have this book about zazen and there no.5 is: herding the ox. no.6 is: coming home on the ox

but it makes some sense of what you said about the  6,7,8 but it would also make sense for 7,8,9

?it’s kind of interesting!

Edited by now is forever
that was the number soup - very tasty one absolutely recommended

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@now is forever sorry my bad. It's actually the last 3. So 8, 9 10 . Substance, form , purposey

The first 7 are complete journey to englightment. The last 3 are there after. Explaining in the crudest way possible

Edited by Samra

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@Samra funny - it really fitted, too. in a way.

but 8,9,10 makes most sense.

it is still interesting to ask substance, form, purpose behind every picture, did you try? you can use it as filter, always three together.

Edited by now is forever

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6 hours ago, Preetom said:
6 hours ago, Preetom said:

Yes exactly. Can you refer to a thought in this issue when thought itself is invalid from the first place? 

Happens almost all the time, I cannot know if I'm right about anything unless I experience it for myself (and even then, I can only say It work for me).
Kinda stopped to think I know anything, but I still have to talk with people so xD 

 

 

I also pondered this a bit.

Can some people have no mystical expériences, because what they really want is the real thing ?
I know than a mystical experience, no matter how wonderful, would still be a temporal experience.
It would be the same thing as having mindblowing sex or shooting myself with cocaine, except if would be even greater than this this time.

Nothing against having amazing experiences, but in my experience, no matter how beautiful, they are a distraction and you tend to cling to them, especially the first times.

 


God is love

Whoever lives in love lives in God

And God in them

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On 11/25/2018 at 0:52 PM, SoonHei said:

So based on the video. Enlightenment is at step number 7...

 

Yet there are 3 more steps?

Was just curious, Who is at #10??

Leo also mentions Osho at the end..

So with all his intellect which is seen... Even he had steps left on the path??

Who are some of the full path masters today?

Mooji, spira, adyashanti .. they all talk about non-duality... So they haven't gone deeper it means? Such that they blend in society and all as picture # 10 talks about?

 

Isn't it "wrong" or part of a "story" to assume that unless one is full of humility and living in society while not preaching about non-duality, that they still haven't completed the journey?

Also, when one has had full ego death.. how can "they" control what they do and the rest of their journey... Isnt it just how Reality unfolds?? So they may just end up at pic 7 or 8 and then what happens is just satsangs till their body death or whatever..

 

 

 

 

Another question, leo has asked n mentioned this before but i never seen a precise answer

 

Why is there something rather than nothing?

 

Whats the true illetectuall answer for this whixh can be explained? I presume the real answer must be experienced directly but would like to know for now

 

 

Why is a childish question if you think about it, and even if it had an answer, it would only be to serve an egoic desire to know, and wouldn't solve your 'problem'.

Look at it this way, Asking why is the same as asking what is the cause/effect.  Why does X exist?  Because Y.  Anything you could possibly fill in would be a limited, finite, and false conclusion if you're asking about the totality of reality.  

You cannot figure this out, that is the barrier, is the having to know.  X and Y could be filled in, but it would have no bearing on reality, wouldn't leave a mark, and you'd still be somewhat dissatisfied, because of the limitation of an X and Y answer.

There is a reason why not knowing is the highest form knowledge, you're already there, but ego fragment or intellect is under the delusion it can reconcile, consolidate, and disseminate information in such a way as to reflect the whole.  Basically, a fragment of reality (and this is being very generous to the ego) believes it can comprehend the entire whole.

There isn't anyone here to know that there is no one here.  It's so unbelievable, utterly unbelievable, it can't be believed.  Enlightenment is being shown to you guys as a thing, an object, a place in time, a goal, a solution, an end, a means, an attainment, an addition, a commodity, a value, etc.  When in fact, there is no such THING.  That is a fact, Nonduality is a fact.  There is not two.


Grace

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15 minutes ago, MiracleMan said:

 ego fragment or intellect is under the delusion it can reconcile, consolidate, and disseminate information in such a way as to reflect the whole.  Basically, a fragment of reality (and this is being very generous to the ego) believes it can comprehend the entire whole.

 

Fosho man. This has to relate to what was being referred to in the dont seek enlightenment thread. Good form! B|

That last post is good dude. 

Edited by Jack River

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Stop being egoic and post me the pics from the video in jpg format, because I don't have time to watch it and I'm interested in seeing the art.


Suppose Love is real, and let's assume reality is unreal. Suppose we discover that the building block of reality is real Love, that means our assumption was wrong and reality is actually not unreal. Reality is real, if everything we supposed is true. I'm not going to say if it is or not.

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13 hours ago, Shin said:

I also pondered this a bit.

Can some people have no mystical expériences, because what they really want is the real thing ?
I know than a mystical experience, no matter how wonderful, would still be a temporal experience.
It would be the same thing as having mindblowing sex or shooting myself with cocaine, except if would be even greater than this this time.

Nothing against having amazing experiences, but in my experience, no matter how beautiful, they are a distraction and you tend to cling to them, especially the first times.

 

Exactly! When you don't expect too much phenomenal extraordinary stuff, you won't get them(probably).

What you desperately expect, you get.

In many bhakti traditions, the seeker urges on to 'see' God as some sort of objective avatar in front of them. Many go Schizophrenic and downright nuts! They visualize on the form so much that they may get a glimpse 10-20 years down the road. But hey, it's their obsessive concentration on a form that materialized that form. It's because there is no objective reality and whatever you deeply focus on, you get.

It's almost like 'mad' people on the street who are so obsessed with their internal dialog that they are unconsciously verbalizing it out loud as well.

These things sure are very wacky and powerful phenomenal experience. Is that Enlightenment? Not until that craving to form dissolves and you let go totally.

Edited by Preetom

''Not this...

Not this...

PLEASE...Not this...''

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4 hours ago, Dodo said:

Stop being egoic and post me the pics from the video in jpg format, because I don't have time to watch it and I'm interested in seeing the art.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ten_Bulls


''Not this...

Not this...

PLEASE...Not this...''

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