Question: Leo's 10 Ox Herding Pics Video

[WelcometoReality]

@SoonHei Use the pictures to determine where you are on the path and do the work necessary. You don't need to make sense of the pictures ahead of you.

[abrakamowse]

@Leo Gura  you said in the video that there's also maps in all religions, even in christianity. Do you know any Christian Map for salvation (enlightenment) ????

[Leo Gura]

@abrakamowse Indeed there are:

http://www.stbarnabasmcminnville.com/PDFs/Evelyn_Underhill.pdf

[abrakamowse]

@Leo Gura Thanks Leo!!!

 

[abrakamowse]

I realized that when I go deeper and deeper is when I see that I don't know what I AM. To say "we are / I am awareness" is an idea, a simplification.

We really can't describe what we are....

Edited November 27, 2018 by abrakamowse

[Leo Gura]

9 minutes ago, abrakamowse said:

We really can't describe what we are....

That's correct.

In the end you will be left in a profound state of not-knowing. That is enlightenment. It's counter-intuitive: You expect to gain knowledge, but you end up losing it. What you gain instead is being.

[abrakamowse]

7 hours ago, Leo Gura said:

That's correct.

In the end you will be left in a profound state of not-knowing. That is enlightenment. It's counter-intuitive: You expect to gain knowledge, but you end up losing it. What you gain instead is being.

Thanks Leo for your pointers!!!! 

[who chit]

On 11/25/2018 at 0:52 PM, SoonHei said:

Why is there something rather than nothing?

For nothing to be known,it would have to be known by that which is aware that there is nothing. So there is not nothing
There is just That, which is Self aware/Self knowing, that it alone, is. Beyond the relative,time bound concept of something and/or nothing.
An enlightened one jokingly said "If it were hard pressed to answer the question Who/What are you,it would say
"I am not unaware." 
 

Edited November 28, 2018 by who chit

[abrakamowse]

Knowledge is limited, the unknown has no limits. Because knowledge needs the unknown to arise, but the unknown is just that... unknown.

I don't know is this make sense...

:-)

[Nahm]

@Leo Gura Finished the video. I don’t know what to say. So beautiful. 

 

 

 

Ya

?

[Nahm]

On 11/26/2018 at 4:16 AM, Preetom said:

Sending blessings through Ether

 

Wow!

[Shin]

Is it possible to be at Stage 5 without mystical experiences and Satori ?

 

Quote

 

Moment to moment no mind, just advance down this path and you will be alright.
To maintain this consciousness, to proceed in moment to moment mindfulness is what is meant by taming the Ox.
This is post-Satori training, only a person who has trained and attained Satori does this kind of post Satori training.
Those who have not seen their own true nature, those who have not obtained Satori or Awakening can do nothing but stir up more unreal thoughts.
When the Ox has been tamed, though you do not use the whip or the line, it will always follow you like a well trained dog.

Though you'll forget about koans you'll always be in no-mind.

You will get so, that you will always be blank, thinking of nothing.
You must train the Ox so that you will not lose Kensho, so you will not lose Buddha nature.

It is truely a great pleasure when you know that you can always savour the world of no-mind in this way, there is no pleasure as great as this.

It is not just as a matter of one or two days spend training or taming the Ox, it is not a manner of mere 5 days sesshin, you must live in continuous concentration upon mindfulness

 

 

Edited November 28, 2018 by Shin

[SoonHei]

@Leo Gura at what picture would you say you are at right now?

[Preetom]

3 hours ago, SoonHei said:

@Leo Gura at what picture would you say you are at right now?

Maybe he is at stage 5, taming the bull and plugging 5 meo during coffee breaks to peek in stage 10 and beyond

[now is forever]

@Preetom the magic number 5.

i think i‘ll have number soup for dinner.

Edited November 29, 2018 by now is forever

[Dodo]

Can you post the pictures please? 

[Leo Gura]

19 hours ago, Shin said:

Is it possible to be at Stage 5 without mystical experiences and Satori ?

Satori is the ox. How can you be past catching the ox if you've never even seen an ox?

13 hours ago, SoonHei said:

@Leo Gura at what picture would you say you are at right now?

I don't fit well on this map because I've done a lot of crazy psychedelics. The map was not designed to account for psychedelics.

I've definitely seen the ox very deeply a bunch of times. But I haven't permanently caught the ox yet or tamed it.

But there's something to be said for very deep seeing of the ox, even if it's just temporary, it still changes your view of the world. You're never quite the same again.

[WelcometoReality]

19 hours ago, Shin said:

Is it possible to be at Stage 5 without mystical experiences and Satori ?

 

 

I've heard that for some people there is no satori. The self just gradually withers away into nothing. So gradual that one does not even notice it taking place 

[now is forever]

2 minutes ago, WelcometoReality said:

I've heard that for some people there is no satori. The self just gradually withers away into nothing. So gradual that one does not even notice it taking place 

that’s spooky

[Shin]

8 minutes ago, WelcometoReality said:

I've heard that for some people there is no satori. The self just gradually withers away into nothing. So gradual that one does not even notice it taking place 

It kind of feels like that.

I'm confused with this model because I'm supposed to be at stage 2 (no mystical experiences, just glimpses), but at the same time I recognize myself in the later stages a lot.