Jordan Peterson on Moral Law

[Hellspeed]

True for the light side of the matter. 

Untrue if you know how to become a superconductor and embrace the fabric of reality. 

[Leo Gura]

31 minutes ago, Outer said:

What?

You missed the part they cut out where he said "I'm not saying you shouldn't wear make-up". "I'm saying we don't know what the rules are.". Can people be manipulated? What's Vice's reasoning for cutting that out? Literally cut right before he says that.

That's just a clever rhetorical trick. He plays this trick a lot. He implies a conservative position but then he never commits to it outright because it would sound ridiculous even to him.

He DID seriously consider the possibilty that women should not wear make up.

He is in the business of playing ideological mind games, not actually offering practical solutions.

He did the same thing with his enforced "enforced monogamy" comment.

JP's whole game is to say deliberately controversial and backwards things, and then dial it back to something half-reasonable. This gets him all of this clicks and views.

The rules are whatever we want them to be. They can be very simple: don't slap a woman's ass and be more sensitive to her POV as a man. Don't abuse a position of power to coerce women to sleep with you.

But this would require admitting that feminism has validity. Which he does not want to do.

[Outer]

13 minutes ago, Leo Gura said:

That's just a clever rhetorical trick. He plays this trick a lot. He implies a conservative position but then he never commits to it outright because it would sound ridiculous even to him.

He DID seriously consider the possibilty that women should not wear make up.

He is in the business of playing ideological mind games, not actually offering practical solutions.

He did the same thing with his enforced "enforced monogamy" comment.

JP's whole game is to say deliberately controversial and backwards things, and then dial it back to something half-reasonable. This gets him all of this clicks and views.

The rules are whatever we want them to be. They can be very simple: don't slap a woman's ass and be more sensitive to her POV as a man. Don't abuse a position of power to coerce women to sleep with you.

But this would require admitting that feminism has validity. Which he does not want to do.

They weren't even sure what the rules were at that point. What constitutes sexual harassment. I'm pretty sure Jordan was talking about flirting to different degrees. As he brought up some company banning hugs and later he brought up NBC asking people to report your coworkers if they suspect romantic entanglement.

[Sidra]

1 hour ago, Rilles said:

Seriously? another JP-thread... leave the poor guy alone, hes just you and me except with different thought patterns.

Yoo.. nailed it hahaha

[Leo Gura]

21 minutes ago, Outer said:

They weren't even sure what the rules were at that point. What constitutes sexual harassment. I'm pretty sure Jordan was talking about flirting to different degrees. As he brought up some company banning hugs and later he brought up NBC asking people to report your coworkers if they suspect romantic entanglement.

That's what a Green transition looks like.

Rules do need to be figured out, but he makes it seems like men and women can't work together in the same place for 40 years.

[Outer]

2 minutes ago, Leo Gura said:

That's what a Green transition looks like.

I'm just saying I don't think Jordan was arguing that women shouldn't wear make-up or whatever to counter what I constitute sexual assault. He was just thinking but not arguing for it in the case of flirting, but he wasn't sure what level of flirting is or isn't acceptable and that's a conversation ppl should have.

[Leo Gura]

@Outer He's not sure if gay marriage is acceptable.

Why talk about make up at all in the context of sexual harassment? It's irrelevant. Unless you're looking for a scapegoat.

[Outer]

1 hour ago, Leo Gura said:

@Outer He's not sure if gay marriage is acceptable.

The uncertainty is built on his foundation as a mistake theorist in my view.

http://slatestarcodex.com/2018/01/24/conflict-vs-mistake/

Edit: On this point he seemed to deviate from that foundation never mind, I heard wrong once I was listening to it. I thought he said that he didn't think there was any benefit for gay people (like there was data) but what he actually said he didn't think there would be any benefit to decrease the demands from the "radical left neo-marxist types". He should've just answered straight whether it's a good or not, based on the data like being a "mistake theorist", in my opinion. He just seems confused on that point, like he kinda implies himself.

On raising children he doesn't seem so uncertain though.

 

Edited November 17, 2018 by Outer

[VioletFlame]

It seems to me like this dude could use some serious self-investigation himself. This is preposterous. If we don't wear makeup, we're unsanitary and "boyish" but if we do wear makeup, we're too sexually provocative and "vulnerable." 

In my opinion, as a woman, we should be able to have the freedom of wearing makeup if it means connecting with our divine feminine, our confidence and personal power without having to walk on eggshells around a sexist's irrepressible libido & perversion. 

Personally I wear makeup because it reminds me of self-expression, as a woman, and utilizing my face as a canvas, if you will. I'm respecting my individuality as a female artist, not wearing makeup as a tool for seduction or to gain lustful attention. 

Instead of being degrading and scapegoating women even more, shaming us of our own feminine energy, men should be learning by now how to tune into and embrace their own feminine nature in order to connect and empathize with the psychological aspects of a woman and ask themselves "What does it feel like to be a woman?" Connect with the essence of androgyny without feeling discomfort or alienation within your gender due to societal judgments and misconceptions. 

Women shouldn't feel inappropriate or uncomfortable within ourselves as feminine creatures regardless of where we are simply because men can't control their masculine temptations. Learn to respectfully look into our eyes and our minds, not our cleavage. Find the beauty within. Don't be so one-track minded.

We should feel comfortable in our own skin with or without makeup as ladies and express our femininity if we feel like it, without the societal toleration that comes with harassment and violation from untamed dogs. 

 

@Leo Gura @Serotoninluv As a woman, I just wanted to say I really appreciate the both of you grasping this as men (and as women.) 

Edited November 18, 2018 by VioletFlame

[Forestluv]

23 minutes ago, Mikael89 said:

Jordan is a psychologist.

He is not enlightened, and is not into nonduality. Now, please explain to me why everyone in this forum are in love with Jordan? And why is there a thread (or several) about him here?

Personally, I find nothing interesting about him.

He gives blue/orange men reasons to resist and marginalize Green progressives. They love him for that. 

I think JP threads pop up periodically because he represents a trap many actualizers work through as they increase their awareness.

[SoonHei]

15 minutes ago, Mikael89 said:

Jordan is a psychologist.

He is not enlightened, and is not into nonduality

I agree. So he should be left out of any discussion here. But things will happen as they happen

[Forestluv]

@VioletFlame Well said violet. ?

Many men resist understanding those views and JP isn’t helping matters.

 

[Joseph Maynor]

Half of what I hear from Jordan Peterson I like, the other half I don’t find as useful.  It’s kinda like that.  I don’t hate the guy and I don’t love the guy.  It’s partial, a little bit of a mixed review.  Some stuff he says resonates with me and some stuff does not.  I feel no need to invest any more thought into it than that.  I take JP on a case by case or video by video basis.  Be careful about judging others.  When you judge others, judgment comes back to you.  People can read that judgment energy off of you and will give you good reason to continue to feel that way by feeding you reactions to reinforce what you expect to find in reality.  The best place you can get to is when you become so internally sourced and grounded that you stop judging other people because you’re not expecting anything from other people — you’re not threatened by other people.  When you’re no longer threatened by other people or expecting anything from them, other people will feel that and will become more attracted to you and accepting of you as a result.  You’ve gotta take 100% responsibility for you getting irritated with other people and judging other people.  Other people aren’t living your life, you are.  Other people are just background to you living your own life.  But see, it’s tempting to turn other people into obstacles that way we can avoid taking that level of responsibility for our own lives.  But that’s just you bullshitting yourself.  And also it turns people against you too because people take you at your own estimate of yourself.  If people see that you’re irritated at them and looking to complain about something — they’ll give you something to complain about!  It’s that self-fulfilling prophesy effect.  People take you at your own estimate of reality and give you what you expect to receive from reality.

Edited November 18, 2018 by Joseph Maynor

[Outer]

1 minute ago, Serotoninluv said:

@VioletFlame Well said violet. ?

Many men resist understanding those views and JP isn’t helping matters.

 

I'm not.

[VioletFlame]

@Serotoninluv Thank you! ? 

Seemingly not.

[Forestluv]

9 minutes ago, Outer said:

I'm not.

Super! Let’s move on to inclusion for transgender and nonbinary pronouns ? 

[Outer]

7 minutes ago, Serotoninluv said:

Super! Let’s move on to inclusion for transgender and nonbinary pronouns ? 

I don't have anything against transgender and nonbinary pronouns.

I don't think Jordan does either.

[Forestluv]

3 hours ago, Outer said:

I don't have anything against transgender and nonbinary pronouns.

I don't think Jordan does either.

Super! You are a step ahead of JP!

What do you think is the most effective way to integrate nonbinary pronouns into society with the goal of increasing acceptance, equality and inclusion for our nonbinary brothers and sisters?

As well, how might normalizing nonbinary pronouns help bring awareness to the irrationality of traditional gender roles and cis-genered privilege?

[Outer]

4 minutes ago, Serotoninluv said:

Super! You are a step ahead of JP!

What do you think is the most effective way to integrate nonbinary pronouns into society with the goal of increasing acceptance, equality and inclusion for our nonbinary brothers and sisters?

What's the current problems with pronouns and society and how large are they?

[Forestluv]

Just now, Outer said:

What's the current problems with pronouns and society and how large are they?

Imagine being a nonbinary person. How might this person answer your question?