UnSpiritual's Criticism of Leo

[Pat Pagano]

I don't know if anyone has happened upon UnSpiritual's videos before but I just did. I was looking around for other videos of Leo not from his channel and I saw a video titled "THE EPIC BULLSHIT of Leo Gura - Part 1". He has a part two and three, and they are both quite entertaining as he completely misunderstands Leo's message in "Mankind is The Bullshitting Animal", even stating things like "Leo is a dualist" which is literally the opposite of what Leo says. From what I'v gathered his channel is just the "insights" that hes gathered through his spiritual journey as well as videos of him calling out others like he did with Leo, with titles like "David Wilcock Exposed". I have never seen any videos of people criticizing Leo like this video and I thought I'd make a post about it. It seemed clear in the video that he has his own paradigm and he did not want to entertain the things Leo was putting forth because that would make him utterly incorrect. It was also clear that he was upset because Leo said he was a materialist (which it seems like he is). Anyways if you want some mindless entertainment sometime I'd suggest giving these a watch lol. 

 

He also just seems kinda butt-hurt but that's just my observation lol.

[Hellspeed]

Hei! 

Leonid has worked on the Mind side Hugely compared to many of us. 

He is like the Monastic LEX Luthor of Vegas. 

Many have bias opinions about what they don't understand. 

 

[Pat Pagano]

Ahh ok, do you think he has anything worth listening to? I watched his intro video and was quite skeptical because of his refutes to Leo but it's absolutely possible he has something worth listening to.

22 minutes ago, Hellspeed said:

Hei! 

Leonid has worked on the Mind side Hugely compared to many of us. 

He is like the Monastic LEX Luthor of Vegas. 

Many have bias opinions about what they don't understand. 

 

 

[Joseph Maynor]

What interests me is why Leo gets under this guy’s skin.  There’s some way in which Leo irritates this guy.  

Edited November 14, 2018 by Joseph Maynor

[Joseph Maynor]

One of the things this guys says that is just so wrong is that Spirituality is re-packaged religion.  That's not true.  I was religious at one point in my life.  I've also been an athiest.  I can tell you from my perspective and experience that Spirituality is definitely not repackaged religion.  Not all Enlightenment teachers and Personal Development teachers fall under this "New Age" concept.  That in itself is a kind of rhetoric.  Every teacher needs to be taken on his or her own words.  Leave the labels behind, they're too easy to spin a web of useless rhetoric that just wastes time and obscures the real conversation over real issues.  That said, I like the fact that this guy thinks for himself, but his use of humor can be pretty "go for the jugular" too.  I wrote an essay recently about how people use humor for pretty hurtful purposes.  Leo means well, you don't want to go for the jugular on somebody like Leo.  That's f*cked up.  You can criticize Leo but you don't need to barbecue him.  And I like the fact that this guy is thinking for himself, and I even appreciate some of his contributions to the discourse.  But don't cause more unnecessary suffering in the work you do.  It's not right to be a dick through humor.  But at the same time, I don't want to position myself as a moralist on this issue.  But I hope I can offer something useful to this matter.  I support having pluralistic voices on the path.  But we've gotta be respectful about it too.

Edited November 14, 2018 by Joseph Maynor

[kieranperez]

 

[Haumea2018]

2 hours ago, Joseph Maynor said:

What interests me is why Leo gets under this guy’s skin.  There’s some way in which Leo irritates this guy.  

"Debunking" videos are "punching up."

The answer is as simple as looking at his subscriber count.

"Punching up" is for losers and haters.

Losers and haters don't tend to intellectual honesty or basic human decency.

Anytime I accidently come across a debunking video on YT, my automatic assumption is that the person is a L&H - unless they have some insider information about the misdeeds of the person or something.  

What I hate about the dumb YT culture is that this format by default tends to attract a certain degree of benefit of the doubt.  I don't understand why.  There's a ton of haters out there, and haters gonna hate.

 

Edited November 14, 2018 by Haumea2018

[Joseph Maynor]

In the first video he said Leo is a dualist which is false.  If you're gonna barbecue somebody make sure you're on the level with it.  Your own credibility has to be high to barbecue someone effectively.  It's like the old saying goes, if you don't have something nice to say about somebody, make sure you say it very well.

Edited November 14, 2018 by Joseph Maynor

[Haumea2018]

Quote

In the first video he said Leo is a dualist which is false.  If you're gonna barbecue somebody make sure you're on the level with it.

That's if your goal is to be intellectually honest or you're even capable of it.

Some people just don't care about that one single bit.

And some people are just willfully ignorant.

There are some genuinely awful people in the spirituality game.  You come across them if you hang around long enough.

Edited November 14, 2018 by Haumea2018

[Joseph Maynor]

6 minutes ago, Haumea2018 said:

That's if your goal is to be intellectually honest or you're even capable of it.

Some people just don't care about that one single bit.

I think this guy has a trauma that he's dealing with and he has a genuine care about these matters.  But I think he might be throwing the baby out with the bathwater regarding Leo.  Leo is like one Sun in the Network of Perspectives.  But there are many other Suns in the Network of Perspectives too.  Leo is not claiming to be the only Sun in the Network of Perspectives.  Your job is to take constructive influence from several Suns in the Network of Perspectives.  And then eventually you become a Sun yourself and start contributing back as well as moving forward on the path.  But it's not constructive to go kill another Sun. That's not sustainable and not smart.  No, you take what's useful and leave what's useless from every Sun and then go improve your own life.

Edited November 14, 2018 by Joseph Maynor

[Haumea2018]

Quote

I think this guy has a trauma that he's dealing with and he has a genuine care about these matters. 

Most awful people have some kind of trauma.  They certainly deserve compassion and understanding for that.

I'm just suggesting that it's ok to see their awfulness for what it is.

Some awful people even rely on their sob story as an excuse for continuing to be awful.  That should never fly.

I have a shitload of trauma.  I've never imagined having the need to avoid guilt for wrongdoing on that account.

 

Edited November 14, 2018 by Haumea2018

[Haumea2018]

Quote

Some awful people even rely on their sob story as an excuse for continuing to be awful.  That should never fly.

BTW, what I meant by that is his suggestion that anger and passion automatically bestow righteousness (or at least indicate greater likelihood of such.)

If that isn't a self-serving delusion, nothing is.

This guy gives a lecture about dog-eat-dog predatory nature and deception and then claims this alongside with it.

Talk about not seeing one's own contradictions.

Yeah, dude, every guy who's come home angry after getting chewed out by the boss and yelled at the wife and kids was surely righteous in his anger.

 

 

Edited November 14, 2018 by Haumea2018

[Joseph Maynor]

I just realized why this guy is so irritated with Leo.  It’s because he has his own equally strong views about reality.  He keeps circling back to what he calls a biological view of things.  I watched all of his videos about Leo.  This guy is so rigid in how he sees reality.   He also sees himself as an expert on Spirituality and has his own strong views regarding same.  So, he thinks Leo is wrong and is making that point in a very jack-assed kind of way by making fun of Leo.  He even sounds like Mark Levin at times too.  I think it’s the laugh.

 

Edited November 14, 2018 by Joseph Maynor

[Haumea2018]

See, this is why Leo's video is so good and needs to be properly understood and rewatched.

Ideology is a crutch for people who behave badly, and Leo majorly triggered this guy because a) deep down he knows he behaves badly and (b) he uses his grievances and ideology to fuel his righteousness so he can continue to behave badly.

This is very common among materialists and New Atheists but of course not exclusive to them.

They don't really want to be better people.  They want to punish others out of a sense of grievance -- any way they can.

Their ideology gives them the justification to continue doing that.

If you've ever wondered why so many of these types behave so badly, that's why.  The ideology is always secondary, the person is primary.

 

Edited November 14, 2018 by Haumea2018

[FoxFoxFox]

So i gotta say, just by looking at that part of the first video where Leo is saying "i'm not in control, it's out of control..." has my chakras begin to vibrate quite intensely. 

[Pat Pagano]

This forum is like high conscious twitter hahaha or reddit. Sooooo many interesting perspectives, I love it. It was very interesting to watch my own reactions to him going at Leo like that. Angry emotions were coming up and I thankfully noticed which showed me I have an attachment to Leo. Part of that attachment is from me genuinely appreciating Leo for teaching me so many things that helped my growth, and the second part is my attachment to the theories and lessons, and my belief that they are true. I definitely need to become more aware of my own ideologies and remember that the map is not the territory. Somewhat ironic that Leo was the one who pointed me in the direction in the first place, constantly reminding to not let his teaching become ideology. I do understand that in going for Truth the answer is never symbolic/thought, I just need to be more aware of when I'm mentally masturbating about Truth

[saffron]

Youtube philosophers ain't shit. Leave it at that.

[Tony 845]

Leo is my boy, he explains enlightenment better then anyone else I've ever listened to.