I refers to the body

[Dodo]

This is a quick and simple one: 
I am hungry. Awareness is not hungry, I am hungry and need to eat, so I go and get something to eat. If I didn't hold any identity that my body is "I" I would not be able to survive (The body would die, this form of life will die).

I need to go to the toilet. Awareness does not need to go to the toilet. I need to go to the toilet so I go to the toilet. Awareness doesn't go anywhere, it stays present in all situations beyond space and time. The body goes to the toilet, and if I was not identified with the body one bit, I, the body, would piss itself every time. 

When it comes to the word/thought "I", it does not refer to awareness. Awareness is God. I am a body-mind, all that I know is a world filtered through the perceptions of that body mind. Awareness is nothing, Ego is everything. Hmmm Or am I going crazy? Who is the I that is going crazy? It can't be awareness going crazy for sure!!! 

So is the only possibility of happiness to be a grass or a tree? Tell me please. Can one be happy as a human being? 

[Preetom]

4 minutes ago, Dodo said:

If I didn't hold any identity that my body is "I" I would not be able to survive (The body would die, this form of life will die).

 if I was not identified with the body one bit, I, the body, would piss itself every time. 

 I am a body-mind, all that I know is a world filtered through the perceptions of that body mind. Awareness is nothing, Ego is everything. 
 

These are exactly the unquestioned assumptions that keeps ego in it's place.

All animals survive and thrive in their natural habitats without a self-referential 'I'. Why do you think you won't survive?

List everything you expect from this 'I'. Keep me alive, remember all the important stuff, protect this body, stay safe, don't act like a fool, make my life easy etc and etc?

Now see how many of these activities does the 'I' really do? It absolutely does nothing. It COULDN'T do anything because it doesn't have any capability to do anything. It is like a beggar who lives outside the parliament and fantasizes that he is running the entire country and takes the whole credit for it by believing it. 

All your eating, pissing, surviving happens by billions of processes behind your conscious mind. But the 'I' pops in after everything and claims ownership of it. 

Gary Weber, who systematically deconstructed the 'I' and all self-referential thoughts with self-inquiry comment, ''My life seems to go so much better without an 'I' ''

 

[Dodo]

22 minutes ago, Preetom said:

These are exactly the unquestioned assumptions that keeps ego in it's place.

All animals survive and thrive in their natural habitats without a self-referential 'I'. Why do you think you won't survive?

List everything you expect from this 'I'. Keep me alive, remember all the important stuff, protect this body, stay safe, don't act like a fool, make my life easy etc and etc?

Now see how many of these activities does the 'I' really do? It absolutely does nothing. It COULDN'T do anything because it doesn't have any capability to do anything. It is like a beggar who lives outside the parliament and fantasizes that he is running the entire country and takes the whole credit for it by believing it. 

All your eating, pissing, surviving happens by billions of processes behind your conscious mind. But the 'I' pops in after everything and claims ownership of it. 

Gary Weber, who systematically deconstructed the 'I' and all self-referential thoughts with self-inquiry comment, ''My life seems to go so much better without an 'I' ''

 

Ok, but there is a problem here which I dont think you can easily see. This is like the kid laughing at the naked king. You are made to see the king as having clothes, because this is what spirituality teaches. 

First of all, the self referencial is a feature rather than a bug. It is the way in which we are able to act in a way that is not only based on animalistic instincts.

Yes animals do pretty well without an I thought, but they sure still do act as if they are their bodies and follow their body's desires for food sex and etcetera.  One can say they are even more identified, just cannot think it or express it. 

 

This Gart Weber you are referring to... Are you referring to his enlightened identity as empty awareness or as the bodymind that wrote a statement about itself and its life? Yeah, the latter indeed... 

The king without clothes. Its obvious to those not indoctrinated. 

[Preetom]

14 minutes ago, Dodo said:

First of all, the self referencial is a feature rather than a bug. It is the way in which we are able to act in a way that is not only based on animalistic instincts.

That's another assumption. Gary Weber talks about this. You might wanna check out his books. All are available as free PDF as he is not into it for money or some other agenda.

He calls it the outdated operating system. Yeah, no doubt as hunter-gatherers, we might have needed an 'I' when there was constant physical dangers all around. It developed in the evolutionary process.

But this same 'I' now has become a debilitating virus in our operating system. Time to upgrade the system. This 'I' is only talking all day just with itself about it's own daydreams and problems. Is it really doing anything productive? No. The entire biological system is doing it's thing from pumping all your blood to scratching your itch. It would continue to do so without an 'I'.

This 'I' is redundant. Also about that comment, it was a general remark. Language itself is limited and post-enlightenment living can't really be put into words. This is why they say at one point you have to be still and come see for yourself.

You might like this article:

http://psychologytomorrowmagazine.com/jeff-warren-neuroscience-suffering-end/

 

Edited November 11, 2018 by Preetom

[Dodo]

9 minutes ago, Preetom said:

That's another assumption. Gary Weber talks about this. You might wanna check out his books. All are available as free PDF as he is not into it for money or some other agenda.

He calls it the outdated operating system. Yeah, no doubt as hunter-gatherers, we might have needed an 'I' when there was constant physical dangers all around. It developed in the evolutionary process.

But this same 'I' now has become a debilitating virus in our operating system. Time to upgrade the system. This 'I' is only talking all day just with itself about it's own daydreams and problems. Is it really doing anything productive? No. The entire biological system is doing it's thing from pumping all your blood to scratching your itch. It would continue to do so without an 'I'.

This 'I' is redundant. Also about that comment, it was a general remark. Language itself is limited and post-enlightenment living can't really be put into words. This is why they say at one point you have to be still and come see for yourself.

You might like this article:

http://psychologytomorrowmagazine.com/jeff-warren-neuroscience-suffering-end/

 

Look I think we are on about different things. You are talking about some intangible "I". I am talking about what the word I refers to. One of the most tangible and obvious things in our existence. The body. The body is the biological system you are talking about. This is the I, I think the title was quite simple.. Perhaps this is too simple to grasp (wink).  

Ok let me for a moment agree with you as if I was speaking about this esoteric intangible I you are talking about. The I is redundant- ok - to whom is it redundant? From your comment the answer would be - to the biological system. Well so forget about this redundant I, the I is obviously the biological system, not that redundant I thought that takes credit. The biological system is I. The body is I. Hence the title of my post - I refers to the body....

 

 I knoooow in this community we are forced to believe that saying "I am the body" is blasphemous!!! But it is just my experience. If I truly was PURE AWARENESS - what is all this going to the toilet business? Lets work with simple things here, simple things!! Toilet!!

Edited November 11, 2018 by Dodo

[Preetom]

@Dodo

Where is this 'I' located in the body? 

Is the whole body 'I'?

Well, does your body evaporates into non-existence if you stop thinking about this 'I' for a moment? After all, there are countless moments in your day when you're not aware of yourself. Basically, during any pleasurable state or activity we are not aware of neither the body nor the 'I'. In deep sleep, this body awareness and 'I' is gone. Does the body evaporates as well? In dreams, it feels like the same 'I' but a different body/subjectivity. How can the 'I' be the biological body? Do you take your biological body in dreams?

what you are talking about, is the very definition of identification with the body. An unquestioned belief that needs to be looked at and unwired through honest inquiry.

There is no solid, tangible 'I' located somewhere and sealing all the deals. There is only the redundant, intangible 'I'

Edited November 11, 2018 by Preetom

[Dodo]

18 minutes ago, Preetom said:

@Dodo

Where is this 'I' located in the body? 

Is the whole body 'I'?

Well, does your body evaporates into non-existence if you stop thinking about this 'I' for a moment? After all, there are countless moments in your day when you're not aware of yourself. Basically, during any pleasurable state or activity we are not aware of neither the body nor the 'I'. In deep sleep, this body awareness and 'I' is gone. Does the body evaporates as well? In dreams, it feels like the same 'I' but a different body/subjectivity. How can the 'I' be the biological body? Do you take your biological body in dreams?

what you are talking about, is the very definition of identification with the body. An unquestioned belief that needs to be looked at and unwired through honest inquiry.

There is no solid, tangible 'I' located somewhere and sealing all the deals. There is only the redundant, intangible 'I'

Oh you're not fair with that dream stuff. Ofcourse in my dreams I get identified as another body. I've even been a flying toy car in my dreams that I was identified as. 

But there is no other "I" there. Awareness is God, not me. I do not make the dreams, I am just the egoic entity inside. I am the flying car, I am the dream body, I am the waking body. I am not God. 

Edited November 11, 2018 by Dodo

[Preetom]

@Dodo

Haven't you heard about the analogy of Mary and Jane that Rupert Spira often uses? There is only one 'I'. It is Awareness's 'I' falsely identified as a limited egoic 'I'. 

And about the happiness thing, once again I'll refer another analogy Rupert uses.

This 'I' falsely identified with any object can never find the true happiness. Only when it divests all it's limitations, that pure 'I' is happiness itself; it doesn't need to search for happiness anymore nor does it have to be grass or tree in order to find happiness.

Just like a moth that rushes towards the flame can never get the flame no matter how much it craves the flame, it can only die in the flame. Similarly, the separate self can never find happiness. It can only die in happiness. Upon the death of this illusory separate self, happiness shines as it is. 

Edited November 11, 2018 by Preetom

[Dodo]

7 minutes ago, Preetom said:

@Dodo

Haven't you heard about the analogy of Mary and Jane that Rupert Spira often uses? There is only one 'I'. It is Awareness's 'I' falsely identified as a limited egoic 'I'. 

And about the happiness thing, once again I'll refer another analogy Rupert uses.

This 'I' falsely identified with any object can never find the true happiness. Only when it divests all it's limitations, that pure 'I' is happiness itself; it doesn't need to search for happiness anymore nor does it have to be grass or tree.

Just like a moth that rushes towards the flame can never get the flame no matter how much it craves the flame, it can only die in the flame. Similarly, the separate self can never find happiness. It can only die in happiness. Upon the death of this illusory separate self, happiness shines as it is. 

Yes this is all good stuff!! But how practical is it... Ofcourse Rupert Spira is the best and I have heard all of those and followed those pointings.. I always return to being a body that needs to have food, needs to sleep, needs comfort and many other things like money to be alive, healthy and happy. In deep sleep I do not need those things and I do not crave anything, I do not identify as anything but I also do not experience happiness. I experience nothingness - I want to be happy, to EXPERIENCE happiness. I want to be rich and be able to afford good food, travelling, to be able to build a family and live "The dream". 
 

If I were Jane's infinite mind, I would never want Mary to suffer. Who cares if Mary thinks she is Mary and not Jane. Jane is so infinite it shouldn't be a problem for Jane to give Mary the BEST life she can possibly have. If I really am the creator of my own reality, why am I making this body suffer? It doesn't seem right. I would NEVER do that. I am not a sadistic fuck like Jane's infinite mind.  Must be my humanity speaking. 

Edited November 11, 2018 by Dodo

[Preetom]

@Dodo

Haha that was some sentimental stuff!

You might like this one. Discusses about many objections you just pulled. Including this argument about God being a mean mofo  

Anyway, if you really feel like that then the wisest decision for you would be to pursue those things that you think will make you happy. You are the creator of your life and you don't need to believe in God or practice non-duality in order to be a millionaire and all that. 

Get all those goodies and see if it gives you the 'happiness' you are seeking. If it does, then congratulations! You've fulfilled the purpose of life. If the project fails, then you can start thinking about an alternative path.

[Dodo]

13 minutes ago, Preetom said:

@Dodo

Haha that was some sentimental stuff!

You might like this one. Discusses about many objections you just pulled. Including this argument about God being a mean mofo  

Anyway, if you really feel like that then the wisest decision for you would be to pursue those things that you think will make you happy. You are the creator of your life and you don't need to believe in God or practice non-duality in order to be a millionaire and all that. 

Get all those goodies and see if it gives you the 'happiness' you are seeking. If it does, then congratulations! You've fulfilled the purpose of life. If the project fails, then you can start thinking about an alternative path.

I know that it will give me happiness. I would be able to get my favourite takeaway every day. I would be able to go to Amsterdam and enjoy true FREEDOM!! My man!! I am a prisoner of society :))) 

 

The alternative is to cut my throat and seek happiness in the beyond.. Dropping the "false body"... Im pretty sure I will get there after a "long and prosperous" life anyway! Better have some fun in the meantime.... no?? But now to make the millions... This is the hard part!! Unless I get lucky with my investments. 

Law of attraction failing me daily... Never seen it working, unless I do the working!! Me- the body!!!!

Edited November 11, 2018 by Dodo

[Preetom]

6 minutes ago, Dodo said:

 Law of attraction failing me daily... Never seen it working, unless I do the working!!

LMAO

[Dodo]

4 minutes ago, Preetom said:

LMAO

Its true tho, I've listened to 1000s of hours of LOA / Abundance / Wealth binaural beats and meditations!! I am currently at   10k+ in debt. Nice going!! Most these videos said "100% results" 
Oh I see!! Tell me more!!

Edited November 11, 2018 by Dodo

[Preetom]

@Dodo

those 1000 hours put into ruthless self-inquiry would be a better investment.

My opinion tho

[Dodo]

2 minutes ago, Preetom said:

@Dodo

those 1000 hours put into ruthless self-inquiry would be a better investment.

My opinion tho

Well u said it, Bashar said it, many have said it - follow what excites you. I really want to have money. I dont have looks, I dont have smarts, I want to have SOMETHING ffs!! 

Self inquiry is pretty much there most the time - from the frantic WHO AM I questioning, to the silent recognition that I am the observer and not the observed which makes me feel falsely happy and safe (like a drug high for a while). Then I snap back to reality and realise I gotta pay the rent and now need to go slave myself to milk some money from the system to survive. Oh shoot!!

[Preetom]

3 minutes ago, Dodo said:

Well u said it, Bashar said it, many have said it - follow what excites you.

well clearly something isn't working here 

Or else those 1000 hours ought to reap some fruit

Edited November 11, 2018 by Preetom

[Dodo]

Just now, Preetom said:

well clearly something isn't working here 

Money excites me. It promises me freedom and opportunity. I am trying to follow money... but it just keeps going out of my pocket instead!!! How can I follow it when it runs away??? 

[Dodo]

8 minutes ago, Preetom said:

 

Or else those 1000 hours ought to reap some fruit

Exactly!! LOA is pure bullshit!!! Never had any magical results!! I only ever got money from my work! They say "You have to believe for it to work" lololol and how to believe if there are no results to make me believe?? :D:D omg LOA is one of the most annoying shits!!!

Its full proof!! There is no way to prove LOA wrong, because if you try to do so, they will start jumping you saying "Its not working bcuz u dont believeeeeeeeeeeee" 
"you gotta beeeeeeeeliiiiiiiiiieeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeve" 

Wow.
 

Well I believe enough to listen to those hour long binaural beats sessions daily and meditate to them!! And no results. Just the interest on my loans growing bigger!! It seems that those LOA videos are working for the banks instead!! The house always wins they say

Edited November 11, 2018 by Dodo

[DrewNows]

@DodoUsually spiritual comes after material wealth/desire...looks like you have some seeking/work to be done yet before you can turn back to self inquiry 

When you can begin Truth seeking these obstacles will no longer be in the mind. If you want more material wealth/success you can investigate your beliefs surrounding these matters...

How can you end and create a belief? Is it possible to embody the idea of a successful person if you still have limiting beliefs surrounding it? How are you not being completely 100% honest with yourself? 

[Hellspeed]

No Body, No Awareness. 

The identification with the outside of one's body is the dogma of the east. Same dogma happens in Christianity in different images.