I am enlightened. Sincere seekers: ask me anything

[winterknight]

20 minutes ago, Outer said:

You don't experience what you perceive. Red, blue and green light enters your eye and retina as three black and white images and then what you experience is the world model where there is color. So what you perceive is the same for everyone (red/blue/green light entering the retina) what the brain does is create color out of that in the world model for clear reasons. Like separating tiger fur from a green bush. That the world models are different is of course the case, for instance a schizophrenic has a different world model than you. That is due to the difference in brains.

What I'm talking about is the experience of color in your inner movie. How can you know whether the colors aren't reversed in someone else's inner movie?

[Outer]

Feel free to contact Frank if you disagree with his conclusion:

"We are self-models living in and experiencing our Model of the World"

[Outer]

1 minute ago, winterknight said:

What I'm talking about is the experience of color in your inner movie. How can you know whether the colors aren't reversed in someone else's inner movie?

I know for certain that they might be. That is because colors are created by the brain.

[winterknight]

5 minutes ago, Annoynymous said:

@wintetknight if fear is not our enemy, why we hear some sayings like 'conquer your fear' in our societies?  

Because maybe at one point in an earlier time and situation that was useful advice.

[Annoynymous]

2 minutes ago, winterknight said:

Because maybe at one point in an earlier time and situation that was useful advice.

So you are saying interpretation of 'what is fear' changable in nature? 

[winterknight]

3 minutes ago, Outer said:

I know for certain that they might be. That is because colors are created by the brain.

How do you know what color in the inner movie corresponds to the brain? Words, right? Don't they look at an fMRI and ask what the person is seeing? Suppose two people say they see "green." How do you know if their inner-movie experiences of the color green are the same?

Edited November 12, 2018 by winterknight

[winterknight]

2 minutes ago, Annoynymous said:

So you are saying interpretation of 'what is fear' changable in nature? 

Not changeable in nature, but that different things are said about it depending on the situation. You might tell a child to conquer their fear, sometimes, depending. But that might not be useful to say to an adult, for example.

The point is that societal sayings are not to be taken as simple truth and applied without thinking.

[Outer]

2 minutes ago, winterknight said:

How do you know what color in the inner movie corresponds to the brain? Words, right? Don't they look at an fMRI and ask what the person is seeing? Suppose two people say they see "green." How do you know if their inner-movie experiences of the color green are the same?

They aren't. You're basically asking if two people's World Model is the same, which consciousness creates, and the answer is no. You'd have to have two perfect clones, atom by atom, for them to have the same world model.

[Emanyalpsid]

8 minutes ago, winterknight said:

How do you know what color in the inner movie corresponds to the brain? Words, right? Don't they look at an fMRI and ask what the person is seeing? Suppose two people say they see "green." How do you know if their inner-movie experiences of the color green are the same?

Well, through language and images.

Edited November 12, 2018 by Emanyalpsid

[i am I AM]

@winterknight What is of everything that should use no thinking?

[winterknight]

1 minute ago, Outer said:

They aren't. You're basically asking if two people's World Model is the same, which consciousness creates, and the answer is no. You'd have to have two perfect clones, atom by atom, for them to have the same world model.

How do you know that their experience of the color green isn't radically different from yours? Say, for example, that they actually see some long binary number -- 111000011101101 -- whenever they see the color green. But they call it "green." Could you be sure that isn't the case?

[Outer]

1 minute ago, winterknight said:

How do you know that their experience of the color green isn't radically different from yours? Say, for example, that they actually see some long binary number -- 111000011101101 -- whenever they see the color green. But they call it "green." Could you be sure that isn't the case?

Their experience IS different, as they have a different World Model, because their brain is different.

[Emanyalpsid]

2 minutes ago, winterknight said:

How do you know that their experience of the color green isn't radically different from yours? Say, for example, that they actually see some long binary number -- 111000011101101 -- whenever they see the color green. But they call it "green." Could you be sure that isn't the case?

That is why we invented science and statistics. In the old days someone who could not see colours would be some weird fucker. Now we know that it comes from a neural condition.

[winterknight]

5 minutes ago, i am I AM said:

@winterknight What is of everything that should use no thinking?

I don't understand. Can you rephrase this question?

Just now, Outer said:

Their experience IS different, as they have a different World Model, because their brain is different.

Yes, but can you answer my question? Could you tell if someone saw the color green as a binary number? As long as they called it green, would you ever be able to tell?

[seeking_brilliance]

@winterknight Thank you so much for helping to evolve the understanding of serious seekers on this forum. I am selfish and want you to keep this thread going forever! Especially as more questions arise.   So funny the mob mentality when you first opened this thread.... hopefully everyone's off topic banter on here won't get this thread closed. Please bear with us for at least a few more days, I can really sense the rise in understanding already across the forum, and my own. Conversing with you, and my guide on liberation unleashed forum, "I" had a glimspe into no-self (no thinker) the other night. I know its only the beginning, but so glad its begun. 

Oh, have you read "Butterflies are free to fly", by Stephen Davis? 

 

Edited November 12, 2018 by seeking_brilliance

[Emanyalpsid]

15 minutes ago, winterknight said:

 

Yes, but can you answer my question? Could you tell if someone saw the color green as a binary number? As long as they called it green, would you ever be able to tell?

That is why they seperated psychology, or the cuckoo science, from the rest of science..

For those reading along with this pleasant discussion in which I take no part. Psychology is based upon self-awareness and came forth out of the philosopical works from Rene Descartes. That is the person who found himself in thought and created the whole Ego based society where we are living in. As his thoughts where given through over generations to our generation by the upbringing. So basically we are, or more you are, all in this mess because of his fine work and the focus of western philosophy on the 'why' question, in other words; the quest for meaning. 

Edited November 12, 2018 by Emanyalpsid

[Annoynymous]

18 minutes ago, winterknight said:

Not changeable in nature, but that different things are said about it depending on the situation. You might tell a child to conquer their fear, sometimes, depending. But that might not be useful to say to an adult, for example.

The point is that societal sayings are not to be taken as simple truth and applied without thinking.

So what is fear, existantially?

N.B - i hope i am not making you annoyed. I just want going into the core of it.

[seeking_brilliance]

7 minutes ago, winterknight said:

Yes, but can you answer my question? Could you tell if someone saw the color green as a binary number? As long as they called it green, would you ever be able to tell?

I know you aren't asking me over here, but kind of reminds me of synesthesia

[Outer]

6 minutes ago, winterknight said:

Yes, but can you answer my question? Could you tell if someone saw the color green as a binary number? As long as they called it green, would you ever be able to tell?

I live in my World Model, not yours, so no I would not be able to tell  if you saw binary rather than green. My World Model might not even have me in it.  Just itself. If I had a screen in my World Model and it made a 1:1 picture of your fMRI data, that would still be my World Model.

[Outer]