Psychedelic experiences vs permanent awareness

[How to be wise]

I understand that when taking psychedelics, you can become conscious of many facets of the absolute, like God, Infinity, Love, intelligence, perception is being, and nature of time. But how much of that is possible for permanent awareness. Is it possible to become permanently conscious of any one of those facets? And I mean 24/7 awareness for the rest of your life. What is the highest thing that you can become conscious of permanently?

[Outer]

Consciousness?

[Forestluv]

Great question. Psychonauts often call this "integration". 

IME, the psychedelic experience is often beyond what my finite mind can comprehend. When returning to a sober mindset, the mind likes to make sense of the experience. Yet I've found doing this reduces / contracts the experience. Quite often, it seems like the "essence" of the experience lingers for a while and then dissolves. Yet, something remains. Once you see certain things, you can't unsee them.

Imagine living in an isolated town in which nobody has ever left the town. Nobody has any idea that anything exists outside this town. One day a being enters and offers you a very different perspective. You agree and he takes you outside the town to a mountain top. You sit there and for the first time see the expansiveness beyond your town. You see how it is interconnected with nature. You see other towns off in the distance. Your perspective of yourself expands greatly. . . You return to the town and try to tell others of your experience. They challenge what you saw. They say you must have been dreaming. They question how you know it is real. They want evidence, yet they are unwilling to leave the safety of the town.

Would you be permanently conscious of every facet of the experience? Of course not. Yet you will be unable to unsee what you saw. Your consciousness will be forever expanded. The way you view things within the town will never be the same after what you saw.

[Jack River]

Unawareness..as in nonbeing. You are not conscious of anything int that place of mystery. 

 

[How to be wise]

@Serotoninluv What I mean is, if somebody did conciousness work for fourty years to expand their consciousness, what is the most they could be conscious of permanently. How does that compare to a 5-MeO peak experience? Which one is higher?

[Jack River]

4 minutes ago, How to be wise said:

@Serotoninluv What I mean is, if somebody did conciousness work for fourty years to expand their consciousness, what is the most they could be conscious of permanently. How does that compare to a 5-MeO peak experience? Which one is higher?

What makes you think this is something you build upon. People seem to think this is “raising or expanding consciousness”, but we soon see that that’s not the way it works. 

Some may see that it is actually the ending of your current conditioned consciousness. Expanding consciousness will go on forever and is not the point. The self feeds off this expansion of consciousness. 

[Jack River]

What seems to make it so difficult is it’s not a “cultivated thing” to be attained. As in Time(40years) or any chemical technological “means” can get us to the mysterious of nothingness. All of that is still conditioned movement. That’s what makes it so uncatchabel dudes. That’s what makes it so cool. 

Expanding consciousness=endless experiences 

“permanent awareness as the ground”= no experience at all. Then experience comes in only when needed, as in application of the intellect/thought. 

Edited November 7, 2018 by Jack River

[Forestluv]

31 minutes ago, How to be wise said:

@Serotoninluv What I mean is, if somebody did conciousness work for fourty years to expand their consciousness, what is the most they could be conscious of permanently. How does that compare to a 5-MeO peak experience? Which one is higher?

Ahhhh. I did 20+ years of part-time consciousness work - 100% substance-free. So, I had a large foundation before my first psychedelic experience. Regarding direct experience in an area of awakening, my first "ego death" trip of four hours revealed more than 20+ years of meditation, retreats, readings, dharma talks etc. There was a knowing of a couple key concepts I never understood - even after many many years of study and meditation. It's like being rocketed to spiritual awakening. Yet then you return. I think I had a solid spiritual foundation to absorb the experience. I had felt an inner calling to go deeper with psychedelics for several years before I honored it.

I would say that a 5-meo peak experience is on the same level of a buddhist master. Yet how that 5-meo experience is interpreted and integrated is dependent upon the developmental spiritual stage of the user. Someone with a shallow / immature spiritual foundation may be shaped by 5-meo very differently than someone with a solid / mature spiritual foundation.

I know someone who has spent about forty years expanding her consciousness without substances. She is very highly evolved. I can sense that she is in tune with areas that are foreign to me. Likewise, it is clear to me that she does not have direct experience in a few areas I do. For example, a 5-meo peak took me to the null void. She speaks of nothingness conceptually, yet I can tell she has never ventured there. As well, I can tell she has direct experience I have never ventured. It's not like one is "higher" than the other. They are both highly evolved. Yet, I would say a lifetime of practice provides a spiritual maturity that a teenager doing 5-meo a few times would lack.

With that said, anyone rocketed to a buddhist master level on a 5-meo peak will be profoundly affected. How that manifests will vary depending on the user. From one perspective, it is a "short cut". From another perspective, there are no "short cuts". Awakening is instant and a process.

[Jack River]

15 minutes ago, Serotoninluv said:

Awakening is instant and a process.

This I can understand fosho. Process yes, process of time (conditioned movement) not so much. I would say that process of awakening starts when the process of time stops. This is how it all seemed to come together as I see it. 

Edited November 7, 2018 by Jack River

[How to be wise]

7 hours ago, Serotoninluv said:

I would say that a 5-meo peak experience is on the same level of a buddhist master.

Really? Do you really think that a Buddhist master is living 24/7 in 5-MeO consciousness:

If that were true, why are they talking about “no-self” so much. There’s far more profound aspects to awakening that they should be talking about.

[pluto]

Yes its definitely possible. I was in a LSD/MDMA/Cannabis type high(without all the hallucinations) almost a year straight at one point. I got carried away with society, relationships, quit spiritual practice altogether and got into psychedelics and decided to allow myself to get used to the illusion again because you only end up realizing that you are GOD and the only Identity left so thus why you chose to be blind in the first place. Its a constant spiral of darkness to light. It never ends. Once you find GOD through one perspective, you then do it all over again via another perspective. You are literally a whole new person every time but so similar you do not notice and think you are the same until you hit that peak again.

Maybe if you live in solitude away from the modern world you can remain in that state indefinitely but you eventually want to be a kid again and be blind and play and learn all over again. That's the joy of life.

 

Edited November 8, 2018 by pluto

[Forestluv]

14 hours ago, How to be wise said:

Really? Do you really think that a Buddhist master is living 24/7 in 5-MeO consciousness:

 

I was referring to a 5-meo *peak* experience. I can’t imagine someone being able to navigate life on a permanent 5-meo peak experience.

As well, I’d say they are on the same level - but different experiences.

An elite basketball player and an elite swimmer have some in common, but they are not the same.

 

 

[Enlightenment]

If permanently you mean without any maintenance daily meditation, then no-self, no doer is possible but for more, meditation is required for the rest of one's life. It's most likely impossible to get to 5-MeO peak sober if even 40000h meditators who have tried 5-MeO are saying that they have never experienced something like that.

[Nahm]

Possible. 

[How to be wise]

@Nahm How would you know?

[Nahm]

@How to be wise It’s what we are (the op). It’s just a matter of properly emptying.  

[SgtPepper]

13 hours ago, pluto said:

Maybe if you live in solitude away from the modern world you can remain in that state indefinitely but you eventually want to be a kid again and be blind and play and learn all over again. That's the joy of life.

 

yep.

[Leo Gura]

@How to be wise There is no limit. You can become conscious of pretty much anything permanently.

But it will take a lot of focused work in most cases.

Of course your neurology will be a limit a lot of times, but you can change your neurology both through external and internal means (like psychedelics and diet or yoga and long meditation sits).

The point is that spiritual practice of any kind rewires your brain. Psychedelics and meditation ultimately do the same thing, one is just more short-acting while the other is more long-acting.

Psychedelics are also more powerful because they can change your neurology is crazy ways, but the effects are rarely permanent (which is actually a good thing) otherwise you could really damage yourself with a bad trip.

[Strikr]

On 07/11/2018 at 11:00 PM, How to be wise said:

I understand that when taking psychedelics, you can become conscious of many facets of the absolute, like God, Infinity, Love, intelligence, perception is being, and nature of time. But how much of that is possible for permanent awareness. Is it possible to become permanently conscious of any one of those facets? And I mean 24/7 awareness for the rest of your life. What is the highest thing that you can become conscious of permanently?

yes. stop you'll stop talking.

psychedelic doesn't fuck your mind, they fuck the lie in your mind.

I swear on all the gods that is true. I don't even need them, meditation can push me into LSD land without any acid.

acid / drug : that's mental construct derived from "guru"/ for sheep

and I don't use psychedelics, I used at time it was needed, and I don't feel any need for more currently, maybe life will put them on my road, but now, not my path.

 

Edited November 9, 2018 by Strikr