Overly Logical Friends Killing Consciousness

[emind]

Ive been recently thinking about something Leo has mentioned a couple of times, and that is how low consciousness it is to be wanting to argue and debate, and be right all the time, ala Sam Harris. I have a lot of intellectual friends and the relationships I have with them provide a lot of satisfaction to me, but there is one downside Ive been experiencing as Ive been going through my journey, namely their overwhelming keenness to debate. 

I sometimes find myself in a high state of consciousness throughout the week, but when the weekend comes and I see them, they start getting bogged down in trivial debates, egoic desires to prove others wrong and overanalyze stuff. I find that  this automatically crashes my state because they draw me in to this mindset. How can I deal with this in the face of the fact that I do not think they have  an ill intention and that aside from this aspect these are people whom I truly love? 

 

[Leo Gura]

Try making at least one new friend who is beyond stage Orange.

Then compare and see if you want more of that.

It's pretty important to make at least one Yellow/Turquoise friend.

You won't really be able to drag an Orange person higher. They have to evolve into it on their own, and I wouldn't count on it happening for at least 10 years. And even then, Green is not that advanced.

[lmfao]

@emind It takes self confidence and low neuroticism to be yourself and not be a sheep. People around you may make it easier for you to fall into a lower consciousness states, but you only fall into that state "because you let them". I've found myself in a similar situation to you ( not in what my friends are interested in but in "being dragged down"), and this situation reminds me of the stories you hear about the devil in religion. He may have tempted you, but its your fault for biting. What Leo said is good.

 

[emind]

@Leo Gura Yes, makes a lot of sense. I feel like this Orange tendency to think as opposed to be has a very toxic and heavy energy to it. I was thinking whenever they start arguing I should just take a step back and not engage.  

[emind]

@lmfao Yeah, absolutely. If I may ask, how have you resisted from be tempted into lower levels of consciousness? As I write this I feel so petty talking about "low levels of consciousness vs high", but theres truly no other way to refer to it in language I guess. 

Edited November 3, 2018 by emind

[Annoynymous]

28 minutes ago, Leo Gura said:

Try making at least new friend who is beyond stage Orange.

Then compare and see if you want more of that.

It's pretty important to make at least one Yellow/Turquoise friend.

You won't really be able to drag an Orange person higher. They have to evolve into it on their own, and I wouldn't count on it happening for at least 10 years. And even then, Green is not that advanced.

@Leo Gura 10 years? Why that much time needed to go from orange to green? I have been following you for 2.5 years and also sticking now. What do you think of us in terms of SP as we watch your videos and at least try to bring some changes in our lives accordingly?

Edited November 3, 2018 by Annoynymous

[Jack River]

6 hours ago, emind said:

but there is one downside Ive been experiencing as Ive been going through my journey, namely their overwhelming keenness to debate. 

This clinging to bias means they are not actually logical, reasonable, rational. Its thought moving in particular direction but not having any awareness of thoughts structure/nature itself. So thought is then the master calling the shots. There can only be an straight order of logic, reason, and rational thinking when we understand the limits of thought/self and are aware of when and how that mechanism goes beyond its limit. 

Although this ability to do see/be aware of this incoherent order of thought, which does brings about coherent action, doesn’t take many years to become actual. Just takes self understanding/ the understanding of thoughts relationship with feelings/emotional reactions. This doesn’t really depend on time, but more the energy we put into this self reflection. 

Edited November 4, 2018 by Jack River

[bejapuskas]

There are things that can be learnt from orange people, like social skills, money managment, but these gave to be refined with the other colours to not be destructive... Leo is absolutely right - I have a yellow friend and he is so great to talk to, definitely more useful and even challenging and wiser than most of my friends...

[Leo Gura]

5 hours ago, Annoynymous said:

@Leo Gura 10 years? Why that much time needed to go from orange to green? I have been following you for 2.5 years and also sticking now. What do you think of us in terms of SP as we watch your videos and at least try to bring some changes in our lives accordingly?

There is a big difference between the rate at which people who follow Actualized.org grow and the general population.

If you watch me and you do many of the techniques I talk about you will grow by a stage every 2 years or so. But his Orange friends aren't doing that. They don't even know about Spiral Dynamics and they don't care about what Actualized.org teaches.

Just to be interested in Actualized.org you must already be a pretty rare type of person.

[Tony 845]

@Leo Gura  where are these color stages located? I'd love see where I'm at.

[d0ornokey]

@Tony 845 his YouTube, theres a 5 part series 

[kieranperez]

8 hours ago, Leo Gura said:

It's pretty important to make at least one Yellow/Turquoise friend.

I feel like intuitively I'm still at a cross between Orange and Green and stuck because I'm living with people that don't let me go into Green. I've thought about making friends that are Yellow/Turquoise but I don't anyone my age (I'm 23) that at that level of development and to be honest, what would make a healthy Yellow and Turquoise want to hangout and be friends with people that are at my level? Highly developed people at that level would probably want to hangout with people at their level and above wouldn't they?

[d0ornokey]

@kieranperez sometimes. I know those that do not

[Tetcher]

4 hours ago, Leo Gura said:

There is a big difference between the rate at which people who follow Actualized.org grow and the general population.

If you watch me and you do many of the techniques I talk about you will grow by a stage every 2 years or so. But his Orange friends aren't doing that. They don't even know about Spiral Dynamics and they don't care about what Actualized.org teaches.

Just to be interested in Actualized.org you must already be a pretty rare type of person.

You are flattering me

Edited November 4, 2018 by Tetcher

[emind]

@kieranperez I feel exactly the same way. I still have some remnants of Orange in me. I still struggle to be open minded about unscientific things, and find it hard to get out of a competitive mentality. Overall though, Ive been having some decent progress. For me, the main thing Ive been wanting to tackle is my vehemency with materialism, I need to let go of it, and I will, slowly but surely. 

 

When it comes to making friends, I think that as long as youre open minded and youre able to communicate to them that you are open to the ideas that come along with spirituality, nonduality, and so on, they will be willing to hang out with you, share, and raise your vibration along with them. I, for instance, probably 80% Green 20% Orange, have two close people that are at least 100% Green, if not 50% Yellow and 50% Green. 

[bejapuskas]

@emind Dont let go ego trick you though... Keep being vigilant all the time, remember when Leo said that your ego will place you 2 stages above - my classmate thinks he is green and has even had glimpses of turquoise... bullshit, he is blue. I am not saying that you are talking trash, just keep that in mind, its often a huge obstacle, thats why Leo tells us to question everything.

@Leo Gura Are kids somehow limited, when it comes to evolution on the spiral? I have heard peopl saying that most of the teenagers are blue or even red, but I never thought about it that way, I always saw these people as orange and green... sometimes blue. After observing their behavior more closely and patiently, I discovered that some of them really have deeply blue and red sides of them, but they are still quite developed. Are the older people just blindly generalizing, when they say that children havent changed almost at all?

I considered myself quite yellow, with some orange and green, but as I question some things I do, I am finding more and more limitations of green in myself, so I am definitely not as deeply yellow as I thought, even though I am implementing some yellow values. I take my orange as something that I have walked over, without developping it that much, can that be the case? Is it bad anyway? What I mean by that is, that I have never done pick up, I am like average with girls and I am not really interested in money... I dont know, what colour is that, if its blue even or just green...

[Leo Gura]

@bejapuskas Most people in their teens and even 20's are very immature and undeveloped.

There's a good reason why rental car companies won't rent you a car unless you are over 25.

I would not coach someone under 25. The maturity just isn't there.

[Extreme Z7]

5 hours ago, Leo Gura said:

@bejapuskas Most people in their teens and even 20's are very immature and undeveloped.

There's a good reason why rental car companies won't rent you a car unless you are over 25.

I would not coach someone under 25. The maturity just isn't there.

I agree. But perhaps that doesn't apply to everyone.

I'm only 21 and I'm fairly confident that I'm mature enough to handle some coaching.

[bejapuskas]

@Leo Gura What does it even mean to be mature? Should I just try to do the things adults do, like try to make some money, try to communicate with kids, chores and practical skills like cookig etc...? I see that there is a big opportunity to grow there, even according to SD and Maslow's hierarchy, as it makes us more independent, but its still unclear what maturity means... in my opinion, you can definitely become mature in younger age, if you have enough experience, most of my friends are around 20 years old or even older, cant really connect that much with my peers.

Do you think I should study Maslow more deeply to get a more precise understanding? It seems that I have grown a lot, but the colours and needs are still unclear. It seems very dogmatic to think that all parents are more developed than adults, at least most adults in my country lack perspectives, they only live in one way and dont really study anything complex. If a teenager has a wider worldview than his grandma, does it mean, that the teenager could have developed a higher stage, but the grandma is more mature and developed overall? (if she isnt senile)