How to differenciate Stage Red vs Stage Orange?

[Wyze]

Is workplace bullying and relationship abuse a sign of Stage Red?

Is there a way to determine if someone's selfish and egotistic behaviour is Stage Red vs Stage Orange? Or is it any other stages regress back to Stage Red?

PS I would like to learn more about Stage Red in depth. Will Leo be making a video on Stage Red?

[Preetom]

@Wyze Bullying and abuse is definitely Stage Red taken to it's uncontrollable territory.

I see the distinction between Red and Orange like this.

Orange: Plays by a set of rules validated by the surroundings. Orange strives to thrive in a system by out-competing others. Or sometimes Orange will create a corollary/new system itself that goes along with present system and thrive in that.

If Orange becomes too selfish, it usually corrupts the system behind the scene...scheming and plotting that usually doesn't get caught so easily.

Red: Red rarely plays by the rules. Red won't hesitate to plow through others to gratify itself.

If Red becomes too selfish, it manifests as direct attack, mob mentality, violence etc.

[Preetom]

@Wyze

Also you can study further about Red from the website Leo recommends

http://spiraldynamicsintegral.nl/en/red/

[Staples]

Red is destructive by nature. Orange is destructive as a side effect.

Edited October 31, 2018 by Staples

[Wyze]

4 hours ago, Preetom said:

Bullying and abuse is definitely Stage Red taken to it's uncontrollable territory.

Totally agree, do you think this is due to extreme repression of the Red in us? As humans we have very little healthy outlet for Red activities apart from sports.

Edited October 31, 2018 by Wyze
Style

[Joseph Maynor]

Orange is much more covert and professional than Red is.  Red exudes a certain kind of rebelliousness that Orange hides behind a veil of professionalism.  Orange doesn’t need to shit where they eat and doesn’t want to do that.  Orange is all about building a solid professional reputation.  See, Orange plays by the rules much more so than Red does.  Red is always looking for ways to break the rules.  Orange is all about flourishing within a system whereas Red is much more dictatorial and mercurial by nature.  You can think of Red as an army of one.  That’s how they think.  It’s them against the world.  Orange is much more integrated in a system that they participate in and profit from.  That’s why business people are very often at Orange.  Orange is much better suited for working with people than Red is.  Orange tends to hide their edges behind a veil of professionalism whereas Red gets off on flaunting their edges.  Red will let you know that they don’t give a fuck.  Orange will come across as very vanilla and appear very innocuous.  Orange has a certain kind of plastic front or persona that Red lacks.  And that’s because Orange cares a lot about building and maintaining cooperative relations with people.  

Edited November 2, 2018 by Joseph Maynor

[Preetom]

47 minutes ago, Wyze said:

Totally agree, do you think this is due to extreme repression of the Red in us? As humans we have very little healthy outlet for Red activities apart from sports.

It's more a function of Consciousness. I doubt unhealthy expressions can be transcended all the way by exercising them more and more. They need to be looked at and melted away once and for all by raising Consciousness

Edited October 31, 2018 by Preetom

[Artaemis]

@Joseph Maynor How do you analyze the stages exactly? Mostly through life experience? How do you read people? Just curious. 

[Joseph Maynor]

3 minutes ago, Artaemis said:

@Joseph Maynor How do you analyze the stages exactly? Mostly through life experience? How do you read people? Just curious. 

I’ve known people at all these stages.  I totally reflect on all the people I’ve known my whole life.  

Edited October 31, 2018 by Joseph Maynor

[Michael569]

1 hour ago, Joseph Maynor said:

Orange is much more covert and professional than Red is.  Red exudes a certain kind of rebelliousness that Orange hides behind a veil of professionalism.  Orange doesn’t need to shit where they eat and doesn’t want to do that.  Orange is all about building a solid professional reputation.  See, Orange plays by the rules much more so than Red does.  Red is always looking for ways to break the rules.  Orange is all about flourishing within a system whereas Red is much more dictatorial and mercurial by nature.  You can think of Red as an army of one.  That’s how they think.  It’s them against the world.  Orange is much more integrated in a system that they participate in and profit from.  That’s why business people are very often at Orange.  Orange is much better suited for working with people than Red is.  Orange tends to hide their edges behind a veil of professionalism whereas Red gets off on flaunting their edges.  Red will let you know that they don’t give a fuck.  Orange will come across as very vanilla and appear very innocuous.  Orange has a certain kind of plastic front or persona that Red lacks.  And that’s because Orange cares a lot about building and maintaining cooperative relations with people

Great post! Been struggling with the differentiating between the two a bit myself sometimes, this pretty much sums it all up, nice and clear. 

[Zizzero]

21 hours ago, Wyze said:

Is workplace bullying and relationship abuse a sign of Stage Red?

Is there a way to determine if someone's selfish and egotistic behaviour is Stage Red vs Stage Orange? Or is it any other stages regress back to Stage Red?

Every stage can hurt others, not just the warm colors.

Red: Simply because red doesn't care
Blue: You don't think a muslim in a christian environment or a christian in a muslim environment will face some kind of bullying? Blue hurts others all the time and justifies it by refering to the fact that he did it to "them" and not to "us"
Orange: If it helps him with his personal agenda, yes. But he's smarter about it and probably more subtle than red.
Green: Go to a green event or social group and say that you support Trump; see how they react. Green can be very mean if he perceives this behavior to be just and will call it a "fight against the real bullies of red/blue/orange"
Yellow: Also yellow can bully. A yellow person just would be more aware of what he's doing. But I don't see how yellow couldn't instrumentalize bullying to reach a bigger goal.

To oversimplify things: warm colors hurt individuals to serve their agenda, and cold colors hurt individuals to serve the agenda of the community.
So if you want to know what stage someone is in when the act without compassion, ask yourself what they attempt to get out of it.

But I would definitely say that the tendency to hurt others lessens with every stage you move up.

[Wyze]

@Zizzero Thank you, I've never thought of it this way.