Why does Leo give video-games such a bad stigma?

[Lorcan]

6 minutes ago, Girzo said:

These are the second worst.  They take a lot of time to complete and give you nothing in return. We are talking about hundreds of hours per game.

Really? I think it comes down to preference. I find having to exert willpower to play these some times. They are broad genres. I will agree, some people are highly addicted to these games. I mean, fuck, some people are addicted to candy crush, I'd struggle to play that shit for 10 minutes.

It highly depends on the game. The more mainstream it is the more addictive I find it tends to be I observe. Then again, I see people who have addictions to niches.

Which games are the least addicting for you?

 

Edited October 29, 2018 by Lorcan

[Aimblack]

6 minutes ago, Girzo said:

These are the second worst.  They take a lot of time to complete and give you nothing in return. We are talking about hundreds of hours per game.

watching shows and mentally masturbating on this forum doesn't get us anything either... but here we are.

[here-now]

Nothing wrong with video games (or anything else). It's the attachment to them that creates problems/knocks things out of balance.

Balance is everything. 

[Shadowraix]

1 hour ago, Caterpillar said:

I think doing enjoyable activities is ultimately what life is about. So I think video games are fine but you don't want to spend 100% of your time on it because there are other enjoyable things to be doing. You don't want to miss out on those.

Bingo.

Moderation in everything.

Teach yourself self-discipline and you'll be fine.

[bejapuskas]

If your meditation practise and life purpose are decent enough, you wont even want to play video games anymore. The feeling of good fight, accomplished meaningful work, awakening or a big aha moment are much more rewarding than a victory in LoL...

[Hellspeed]

I Meditate while I play, and in an online setup (MMORPG or shooter), I usually use my psychic powers to cheat, like grasping the attention of the subconscious mind of the opposite player to fall in the trap hahahahaha.

[now is forever]

@Hellspeed ?

[universe]

I seperate Leos teachings into two ways.

 

Enlightenment work is all about getting out of reality, most video games suck you into their reality. Now you can argue that those are two different realities but thats not the case. Practically, when you reached enlightenment you can still play video games - no problem.

Personal development work is about actualizing your potential. Here it depends on what you actually want and how much you want it. You might really want to work on x, get a dream partner y and experience z. If those things are not related to video games you probably should stop playing video games in favor of better habits. But its not really a matter of should or should, you will just realize you want to do other things more than playing video games, after you realize how fucking happy they make you.

 

Also video games can be low consciousness or high consciousness.

Also people can get addicted to video games.

 

I played many games myself (FF, LoL, CS, HL2, MP for example) but idk man, recent years I lost a lot of interest in them. I play them for a bit and it gets just to tiring to play them. Most games nowadays are shit imho. In the last months I stopped playing completely, not a choice I made but it just happend. Other things are simply more interesting then games.

[now is forever]

@universe if you’d reached enlightenment you would not want to play video games anymore. i doubt the buddha would have played video games.

telling yourself that it’s possible to be enlightened and to play video games at the same time, and telling that to others is a trick of your ego not wanting to give up your favorite addiction, telling other addictees it is ok to have a fix in a while. 

if you manage to handle an addiction, fine but don’t confuse it with being enlightened as long as you still do it.

there are many ways out of addiction, some need a clear cut, while others can take it slow. it’s a matter of how good a player you really are to get out of the game stronger than before.

that’s the self actualization part. it’s a choice of the right method.

Edited November 1, 2018 by now is forever

[Elysian]

4 hours ago, now is forever said:

@universe if you’d reached enlightenment you would not want to play video games anymore. i doubt the buddha would have played video games.

telling yourself that it’s possible to be enlightened and to play video games at the same time, and telling that to others is a trick of your ego not wanting to give up your favorite addiction, telling other addictees it is ok to have a fix in a while. 

if you manage to handle an addiction, fine but don’t confuse it with being enlightened as long as you still do it.

there are many ways out of addiction, some need a clear cut, while others can take it slow. it’s a matter of how good a player you really are to get out of the game stronger than before.

that’s the self actualization part. it’s a choice of the right method.

 

[alankrillin]

On 29/10/2018 at 9:42 PM, Shadowraix said:

Bingo.

Moderation in everything.

Teach yourself self-discipline and you'll be fine.

Not bingo.

I used to think that's what life was about before I got into spirituality. Masturbating with anything under the pretence of "enjoying life"

Yay go party, have fun, dick around.

@OP

The purpose of life is to be highly conscious, to appreciate every single moment in the present moment.

Video games does exactly the opposite of that. It makes you unconscious and it's a distraction of the ego to keep you busy so you don't seek out truth.

Leo talks about this so many times I don't know why you need to even ask "why does Leo make a bad stigma about it" he's already addressed the issue many times.

If you want to go play video games, do it, but stop seeking justification for your bad habit so you can pat yourself that it's ok, you shouldn’t play video games at all, in the same way you shouldn't drink sodas and eat junk food, or smoke at all, and yet people still do, it’s called being unable to handle compulsive behaviour.

Do you play games because you "chose it" in the same way someone "choses to study" or did you run to video games as an escape from boredom at the first chance? One is a conscious deliberate action the other is a compulsion for dopamine hits.

This is not something you force, if you're unconscious video games will be an appealing escape for you, if you are highly conscious you really won't get excited about it.

Video games is a "negative-sum reward" activity or at best a "zero-sum reward" definately not a positive one. You can see how big its growing, and how many people are hooked, it should be the new term for "coach potato".

No one is quick or proud to say "hey, i sit at home all day and watch TV", yet somehow being a "gamer" is "cool trend" haaaaa! it's exactly the same crap.

Edited November 1, 2018 by alankrillin

[Elysian]

44 minutes ago, alankrillin said:

No one is quick or proud to say "hey, i sit at home all day and watch TV", yet somehow being a "gamer" is "cool trend" haaaaa! it's exactly the same crap.

That might be because of the communities created around games, especially MMO's. I would say games are worse than TV in general. The addiction that is likely to happen is just hitting so many more impulses in games than in TV.

[Shadowraix]

3 hours ago, alankrillin said:

Not bingo.

I used to think that's what life was about before I got into spirituality. Masturbating with anything under the pretence of "enjoying life"

Yay go party, have fun, dick around.

Yes, bingo.

I was referring to the moderation point.

The purpose of life is whatever you make it. Purpose is a projection onto things, not an inherent quality of anything.

Don't confuse spirituality as some correct path to living life.

There is no correct or incorrect path. Just the path you desire to follow.

2 hours ago, Elysian said:

That might be because of the communities created around games, especially MMO's. I would say games are worse than TV in general. The addiction that is likely to happen is just hitting so many more impulses in games than in TV.

Games were highly stigmatized just a decade or 2 ago. I'd argue they are better than TV in a way because many are very brain stimulating. Playing them can often require way more effort than just sitting on a couch and watching. Especially VR games which can help in the fitness department.

3 hours ago, alankrillin said:

The purpose of life is to be highly conscious, to appreciate every single moment in the present moment.

 

As I said there is no inherent purpose. For purpose to exist you must project it. So what makes your purpose more true than caterpillar's purpose? Absolutely nothing.

 

[now is forever]

6 hours ago, Shadowraix said:

Games were highly stigmatized just a decade or 2 ago. I'd argue they are better than TV in a way because many are very brain stimulating. Playing them can often require way more effort than just sitting on a couch and watching. Especially VR games which can help in the fitness department.

yes but it also means all the bad stuff sinks way deeper in than by just watching a movie.

you click your conciousness off and the game is playing you.

[Shin]

Just stop lying to yourselves.

They are a huge distraction like every other entertainment plus the opposite sex.

It is all distractions.

[alankrillin]

8 hours ago, Shadowraix said:

Yes, bingo.

I was referring to the moderation point.

The purpose of life is whatever you make it. Purpose is a projection onto things, not an inherent quality of anything.

Don't confuse spirituality as some correct path to living life.

There is no correct or incorrect path. Just the path you desire to follow.

Games were highly stigmatized just a decade or 2 ago. I'd argue they are better than TV in a way because many are very brain stimulating. Playing them can often require way more effort than just sitting on a couch and watching. Especially VR games which can help in the fitness department.

As I said there is no inherent purpose. For purpose to exist you must project it. So what makes your purpose more true than caterpillar's purpose? Absolutely nothing.

 

Nope, not bingo.

You are clueless.

You talk about moderation as the average person, "life is for fun", "moderation for all things".

Moderation doesn't work when it comes to many things, you can't for example do activities that break big laws in moderation. You can't do cocaine and heroin in moderation. So moderation is not a "key lesson" in life. The phrase "in moderation" is used when people defend bad habits.

I knew a guy who would played League of Legends, 1 hour a day, because he had workdays and a wife, but what happen on weekends when his wife was out? That's right he binged League 8 hours straight until his wife came back. That's what 1 hour video games do when you finally have free time to binge, they implant into your subconscious that craving to play.

The purpose of life is not whatever you want it to be, again you are completely clueless and going to give people wrong conclusions about life.

Life is a like a movie, the purpose of a movie is not about reaching the ending, it is not the goal, it is not the final message or teaching lesson or the credits. The point of the movie is the entire movie itself, the process of enjoying it as a whole, the same way when you play a video game. (If you ever played "the sims" and entered money cheat you realise how pointless this game is and quit, because all you do is waste time earning money to waste time buying products and the money cheat gets straight to the point, it would be ironic if you could do that with life too hehe).

So yes appreciating the moment is bigger > than your "whatever you want your life to be about", and it should come prior to your life purpose, because if you're not appreciating life whilst you chase some distant goals, then fuck you ain't got no life. Your making your happiness something dependent on goals. "I'm only happy when i get to play video games! or do X, Y, Z."

The last part about your Video Games vs TV is nonsense, you just picked a side and trying to justify why games is better than TV when its not, it depends what perspective you want to take on it. Games hit dopamine receptors more and create more addiction than TV. Games give you long winded objectives, goals, and grinds that compel you to complete. Games can be good or bad for your brain, gamers always go crazy smashing their monitors and keyboards and raging. There are much better proven things to improve your brain such as Sudoku or Crosswords puzzles that won't give you all the negative sides of gaming, so again no real excuse.

When it comes really down to it you're saying games are good because they "hitting my dopamine receptors and that makes me feel great" so maybe dig deeper into that, dig into how these pixels dancing on a screen is affecting your brain where people can spend hours chasing pixels, an illusion of screen that is sedating you.

Like a i said its a fact that video games are a negative-sum or a zero-sum reward at best, zero sum means you win now because you entertain yourself for the moment but you lose directly after because you wasted your time on an unproductive hobby.

It can also be a lose-lose situation for example multplayer gaming, where to spent the last hour dying in frustrating ways and you smash your table and walk away from the gaming session, see you didnt have fun and you wasted your time lose-lose (movies usually don't make you rage quit, and if you do sports at least you got a workout from it!).

People need to fill their lives with positive-sum rewards, win-win situations.

If you want to talk about moderation let's talk about moderation of positive things, like how shouldn't drink too much water to the point of intoxication or eat too much fruit to the point of having high sugar levels on a daily basis. Let's NOT tell the smokers "hey bud, you know if you smoke once a day it's cool, its all in moderation", because frankly someone who's gone cold turkey on smoking doesn't need such bad advice.

 

Edited November 2, 2018 by alankrillin

[Shadowraix]

@alankrillin There is so much here that its a pain to reply to it all.

20 minutes ago, alankrillin said:

Moderation doesn't work when it comes to many things, you can't for example do activities that break big laws in moderation. You can't do cocaine and heroine in moderation. So moderation is not a "key lesson" in life. The phrase "in moderation" is used when people defend bad habits.

You can do those in moderation. But we are talking about video games and not drugs. I did say moderation in everything but I meant that as in everything you do. Not that literally anything in moderation will work out just fine for you. Often times the moderation amount is so low its impractical. Too much of anything can result in a negative impact.

20 minutes ago, alankrillin said:

I knew a guy who would played League of Legends, 1 hour a day, because he had workdays and a wife, but what happen on weekends when his wife was out? That's right he binged League 8 hours straight until his wife came back. That's what 1 hour video games do when you finally have free time to bing, they implant into your subconscious that craving to play.

One example. One. That does not mean that is the case for everyone.

20 minutes ago, alankrillin said:

The purpose of life is not whatever you want it, again you completely clueless and going to give people wrong conclusions about life.

Life is a like a movie, the purpose of a movie is not about reaching the ending, it is not the goal, it is not the final message or teaching lesson or the credits. The point of the movie is the entire movie itself,

To us that basically makes it meaningless and you just do whatever you want basically. I'm not clueless, you are just interpreting what I am saying from an entirely different perspective.

20 minutes ago, alankrillin said:

So yes appreciating the moment is bigger > than your "whatever you want your life to be about", and it should come prior to your life purpose, because if you're not appreciating life whilst you chase some distant goals, then fuck you ain't got no life. Your making your happiness something dependent on goals. "I'm only happy when i get to play video games! or do X, Y, Z."

If thats the path you chose then good for you. There's no correct or incorrect path to live. There is no should or should not. 

 

20 minutes ago, alankrillin said:

The last part about your Video games vs TV is nonsene, you just picked a side and trying to justify why games is better than TV when its not, it depends what perspective you want to take on it. Games hit dopamine receptors more and create more addiction than TV. Games give you long winded objectives, goals, and grinds that compel you to complete. Games can be good or bad for your brain, gamers always go crazy smashing their monitors and keyboards and raging. There are much better proven things to improve your brain such as sudoku or crosswords puzzles that won't give you all the negative sides of gaming, so again no real excuse.

Depends on the game which my language usage did signal. I said many, not all. I also said they are better in a way. In a way. So yeah of course it depends what perspective you take on it.

20 minutes ago, alankrillin said:

When it comes really down to it you're saying games are good because they "hitting my dopamine receptors and that makes me feel great" so maybe dig deeper into that, dig into how this pixel dancing on a screen is affecting your brain where people can spend hours chasing pixels.

I did not say this at all. I was referring to benefits that aid in fine motor control and learning which are far more than dopamine receptors.

 

20 minutes ago, alankrillin said:

If you want to talk about moderation let's talk about moderation of positive things, like how shouldn't drink too much water to the point of intoxication or eat too much fruit to the point having high sugar levels on a daily basis. Let's NOT tell the smokers "hey bud, you know if you smoke once a day it's cool, its all in moderation", because frankly someone who's gone cold turkey on smoking doesn't need such bad advice.

Not relevant here.

Edited November 2, 2018 by Shadowraix

[alankrillin]

1 minute ago, Shadowraix said:

@alankrillin There is so much here that its a pain to reply to it all.

You can do those in moderation. But we are talking about video games and not drugs so why are you changing topics? Please don't generalize my statements, thanks.

One example. One. That does not mean that is the case for everyone.

To us that basically makes it meaningless and you just do whatever you want basically. I'm not clueless, you are just interpreting what I am saying from an entirely different perspective.

If thats the path you chose then good for you. There's no correct or incorrect path to live. There is no should or should not. 

 

Depends on the game which my language usage did signal. I said many, not all. I also said they are better in a way. In a way. So yeah of course it depends what perspective you take on it.

I did not say this at all. I was referring to benefits that aid in fine motor control and learning which are far more than dopamine receptors.

 

Not relevant here.

Considering how quickly you replied with a dismissal of everything I said, it's quite clear advice will be fallen on a deaf ears.

If you thinking enjoying and being in the present moment and basking in consciousness is not the foundational thing to life then I'd suggest you go do more spiritual work until you become highly conscious or enlightened, then you will get what I tried to convey.

Until then masturbate on your video games.

[Viking]

if you think its a better use of your time do whatever the fuck u want, man.

[Shadowraix]

11 minutes ago, alankrillin said:

Considering how quickly you replied with a dismissal of everything I said, it's quite clear advice will be fallen on a deaf ears.

If you thinking enjoying and being in the present moment and basking in consciousness is not the foundational thing to life then I'd suggest you go do more spiritual work until you become highly conscious or enlightened, then you will get what I tried to convey.

Until then masturbate on your video games.

I have never stated how I live life at all. Video games have a very minimal presence in my life.

I am trying to say that you can't live life incorrectly because there is no correct/incorrect way of living to begin with.

At the end of the day you live how you want to.

Its far too easy of a trap to be highly conscious then sit on a high horse looking lowly on the lower consciousness people as if they are living life incorrectly.

From an absolute perspective yes its purpose is to just exist.

But from this relative perspective purpose and meaning must be projected and so there is no correct way to go about it. The only correct way is the way you do go about it. Reality is never as it shouldn't be.