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Sadhguru says we have free will...

91 posts in this topic

13 hours ago, Serotoninluv said:

Do you think that the appearance of some thoughts can be linked between people over distance.

I think that's murky territory. Mainly because it's impossible to treat thoughts as 'things' that can be compared to each other.  Your thought about your friend is not their thought about you. What exactly would tie these two disparate thoughts together - especially if two different people are having them? One answer is that every thought comes with the baggage of context. The context is pinned on the pure thought after it's occurred.  It is the context that is then used to compare thoughts. Where does the context come from? Previous experiences, memories and so on. In other words, there is no coincidence, it's 'made up' to suit the occasion.

A completely different slant on it, is to take it probabilistically. Here's a thought experiment... 

Imagine there is an entity whose sole purpose is to generate thoughts.  The thoughts are utterly random, but they come in succession one after the other. The entity has always existed and will continue existing forever. One day it gets lucky and has a succession of thoughts which are in some way correlated with each other, by pure chance. The lucky succession of thoughts lasts for 75 years, thought after thought after thought. Impossible? Not given an infinity of time.  That lucky fluke is you. 

In reality the thoughts a not connected in any way with each other: the succession of correlated thoughts gives the illusion of a 'you' having these thoughts. Rather like the individual frames of a film giving the illusion of motion.

 


Consiousness is big. You just won't believe how vastly, hugely, mind-bogglingly big it is.

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On a much more simple level...

Desire, will, psychological becoming, are all actually one and the same movement of fear looking to end itself by means of nourishing it’s own movement(psychological time). 

If action (i.e choosing/deciding) being influenced by desire/will is determined by FEAR, is that action ever free? 

Or is that action inevitably burdened and limited by fear? 

 

 

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12 hours ago, LastThursday said:

I think that's murky territory. Mainly because it's impossible to treat thoughts as 'things' that can be compared to each other.  Your thought about your friend is not their thought about you. What exactly would tie these two disparate thoughts together - especially if two different people are having them? 

 

Hmmm, I don't know. Quantum mechanics has shown that two entities can be entangled over great distances. Those experiments opened my mind as did glimpses of murky direct experience. I have a sense that over the next hundreds of years humans will discover phenomena that would seem like magic today.

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I was pondering over the same topic lately and a realization struck when 'I' was having dinner - try thinking which piece of food in your plate you are going to go for next and 'you' can quickly realize how you really have no control over it. You have no control over anything really happening.

Try it in your direct experience - you really have no idea what is going to happen in just a few seconds, even when you are 'in control' as in writing an e-mail, scratching your head or drinking water. I like an analogy Leo used in one of his videos - the Ego is just like the Google search page which is the output of a system rather than an input (which would be all the employees running this complex system called Google search engine). 

Your mind takes ownership of anything you do, but try to see if that is really true in your direct experience.

Edited by Flammable

You see, the reason you want to be better, is the reason why you aren’t. Shall I put it like that?

We aren't better, because we want to be.

                                                                                                                                                 ~ Alan Watts

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The fully awaken has free will, period. 


... 7 rabbits will live forever.                                                                                                                                                                                                  

 

 

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18 hours ago, Serotoninluv said:

Hmmm, I don't know. Quantum mechanics has shown that two entities can be entangled over great distances. Those experiments opened my mind as did glimpses of murky direct experience. I have a sense that over the next hundreds of years humans will discover phenomena that would seem like magic today.

I have to admit I've become super sceptical about things I don't directly experience - anything other than that is quite literally a story I tell myself. Anything to do with science is also quite literally 'a story'. Useful stories maybe, bit still stories; and I used to be a hard and fast materialist.  But anyway, entanglement is a very specific thing between two identical particles of matter, which were born at the same instant. It has nothing at all to say about the subjective experience of thought. 

However, there is solid scientific evidence of 'mind over matter' (video here sound is crappy though). Also look up Benjamin Libet. My point is, who's to say that one person's thoughts/intent doesn't affect the free will of others? Maybe we're all thoroughly entangled? But it's still easier to use the power of speech, than the power of mind to 'entangle' others.

As for magic, it is all around us, but our egos have a real downer on it.

Edited by LastThursday

Consiousness is big. You just won't believe how vastly, hugely, mind-bogglingly big it is.

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@Shanmugam good article. Especially valid since we're using words on a forum to try and discuss the elephant of non-verbal direct awareness.  Maybe all seven are true here?


Consiousness is big. You just won't believe how vastly, hugely, mind-bogglingly big it is.

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3 hours ago, LastThursday said:

@Shanmugam good article. Especially valid since we're using words on a forum to try and discuss the elephant of non-verbal direct awareness.  Maybe all seven are true here?

thank you..

oh yes.. All seven are true.. It should be...

Free will is a delicate topic. When we say there is no free will, people always misunderstand as some kind of nihilistic teaching. So the 7-valued logic is the best way to address this confusion.


Shanmugam 

Subscribe to my Youtube channel for videos regarding spiritual path, psychology, meditation, poetry and more: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCwOJcU0o7xIy1L663hoxzZw?sub_confirmation=1 

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Okay I’m gonna settle this age-old debate once and for all....:

I don’t have free will..... but I DO have Free Willy

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On VHS specifically. 

 

 

But just my two cents, who we think we are doesn’t have free will. What we really are does have free will. 

Like in a dream, you’re just helplessly going from one happening to the next, completely unaware that you’re dreaming. But when you realize you’re dreaming, some control is gained. Not by the dream character, but by the mind outside the dream. 

Of course, nondualism, so also the opposite of everything I just said. 


“Curiosity killed the cat.”

 

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