xbcc

Sadhguru says we have free will...

91 posts in this topic

Hello all,

This is my first post here and I am very glad to be part of this community.

I think the majority of people on this forum believe in no free will. Even Leo, who is a fan of sadhguru.

Leo says Sadhguru is enlightened. Leo also says that there is no free will. How come Sadhguru believes that there is free will? You can hear him say that here.

Looking forward to your comments!

 

-xbcc

 

 

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Don’t listen to anybody when it comes to your experience. If it feels to that you have a free will than it is so. Don’t follow other people’s ideas and beliefs. They may misslead you. Always follow what is true for you... 

 

Yes I have a free will. I have a consciosness and I can decide to change my life. Now what is true for you?

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Lol, so what? Being enlightened doesn't mean you're always right. 

To me, free will vs no free will is a paradox. We are in control of what we're doing, and at the same time we are not in control at all. 

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Haha..  sadguru talks according to crowd. Indians mostly have tendency to not take 100% responsibility of life they put everything in fate. And have self esteem issues. To counter this he may have said so.


I will be waiting here, For your silence to break, For your soul to shake,              For your love to wake! Rumi

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@xbcc Great question. Be very aware of context. People can use the term "free will" in different ways.

Depending on how the term is being used, one could say there is free will and another could say there is no free will. The people could be using the term in different ways and they both can be correct.

This is a topic I see people debating over a lot. Debating for hours upon hours. Quite often the two people are using the term differently. Yet, they both assume their definition of the term is normative and everyone else is using the term like they are. They may argue for hours without realizing that they actually agree with each other.

Be mindful of context for words/terms such as free will, God, truth, respect, relationship etc. Observe how the person is using the term. For example, Sadhguru would use the word "God" very differently to how Richard Dawkins uses the word "God". 

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I find the term consciousness more helpful than freewill. Haven't really seen Determinism(or Determinism plus i.e Compatiblism) vs Freewill slugfests that sometimes plague other forums.

Whether consciousness can be equated in someway to god or what it even really means, I don't know.

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@Serotoninluv I think the truth is the people who have debating free will does not really want to experience the free will thing themselves. They just want to persuade themselves and others to believe in freewill or predeterminism. If we focus on intellectual reason alone, pre-determinism wins simply because there's a reason/cause behind every action according to local logic. However, in that logical argument, we leave out 1 very important element: consciousness. The only way to verify this free will thing is by being conscious of every action we do, even the movement of our hands for example. From my direct experience, consciousness is real and we can do things consciously but it does not mean we're free. Because to say we're doing things consciously ----> we're free we need an axiom: "We are we". There's literally no proof to it. We just believe we're we. And from my perspective, i'm not this body and brain. I don't even understand how it works. For example: IF I try to solve a maths problem, it depends on the capacity of my brain, not "me". The people who keep asking about free will already believe they're the body and brain, which is what needs to be questioned.

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@xbcc honestly i think you should be careful with Sadhguru. He's quite egoic. Seems to me he's not realizing the deep nature of reality. He's just a very good yoga teacher. I suggest you listen to Osho. (It's just my opinion). In Leo's free will video, he leaves out 1 element: "consciousness" . However, even when you can do every thing consciously, there's no proof you have free will. For you to have free will, you'll have to believe/think you're you. 

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@xbcc You are pure unmanifest being and dynamic creative potential. You are free will. Coming from the enlightened point of view, these are all concepts that can barely transmit the truth, but nevertheless they are helpful to illustrate the point.

When an enlightened being says "I don't believe in free will." what they mean is that there is no "I" who believe in free will. There is no Ego who BELIEVES in anything. From that perspective, the truth begins to dislodge itself from the concepts, which makes the latter redundant. 


There is a voice that doesn't use words. Listen! - Rumi

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If there is no separate person ultimately, there is no separate will either.

Then free will or no free will become mute points, for whom?

Adi Da on free will: 'There both is and isn't'

David Spero: 'I dont know, if you look at the past everything seems faithed but .. [ can't remember the rest ]'

So yeah, it's not as black and white and some teachers make it seem, but all they do is point to the beyond anyways, basically talking crap so you would stop thinking/believing everything for granted

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@xbcc

Hi & welcome to the forum.

Contemplate the  “ I “ in your original post.

Forget the rest of the words. 

 

If you mean “ I “ as in a person which is an individual entity, separate from all that is, then you do not have free will. Free will is only a question ( a thought)  you are holding because you think you are an individual entity, separate from all that is. 

If you mean “ I “ as in all that is, then you do not have free will, as you are already all that is, leaving nothing to impose will, and nothing to impose any will upon. 


MEDITATIONS TOOLS  ActualityOfBeing.com  GUIDANCE SESSIONS

NONDUALITY LOA  My Youtube Channel  THE TRUE NATURE

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What is all that is? You don't know, what is nothing, you don't know.

I experience free will, or not, maybe it's simpler than we think.

It's cool not to know :) 

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There is free will. That is your divine right given to you by God. You can take any action, create any thoughts.

When you surrender it seems like there is no free will because you have used your free will to always choose Love. 


Feel your hearts embrace of this moment of existence, and your love will awaken in everything you perceive ❤️ 

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5 hours ago, Baotrader said:

@Serotoninluv I think the truth is the people who have debating free will does not really want to experience the free will thing themselves. They just want to persuade themselves and others to believe in freewill or predeterminism. 

Yep. Intellectualizing is all fun and games for the ego. It's still in the driver's seat. Facing it directly through direct experience is very different - because the ego no longer gets to call the shots.

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@Nahm lol, do you think anybody will take some time off to contemplate just because you tell them to. You know better than that. 


"Wanting keeps me from the awareness I already have it. I already am it.” — Byron Katie

 

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@xbcc when sadhguru says you have free will, he is meeting the audience that he’s speaking to from where they are. The audience, who are probably not enlightened, clearly believe that they have free will. So sadhguru is talking to them in their terms, and not in his own experience. It’s called ‘relative truth’. It’s the truth of the un enlightened person. 


"Wanting keeps me from the awareness I already have it. I already am it.” — Byron Katie

 

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