Spiral Dynamics Stage Green Examples Mega-Thread

[Forestluv]

31 minutes ago, Scholar said:

Sure, but you don't have to be even close to green to fight for LGBTQ rights.

11 minutes ago, DocWatts said:

Just anecdotally, but I happen to know a number of Orange Libertarian types who are totally on board with LGBTQ rights, they just approach the issue differently than someone at Stage Green or Yellow would.

Orange Libertarians may support LGBTQ from a personal-rights, small government ideological position, yet they are not going to *fight* for LGBTQ rights and inclusion. It would simply be on principle. 

Neither Blue nor Orange would value and fight for the inclusion of a marginalized out-group. A good example is Jordan Peterson. He may 'talk' about LGBTQ personal rights in principal, yet he resists the actual inclusion actions to manifest that as reality. They would see the actuality of inclusion and equality as encroaching upon their own personal freedoms to exclude the out-group. 

[DocWatts]

19 minutes ago, Forestluv said:

Orange Libertarians may support LGBTQ from a personal-rights, small government ideological position, yet they are not going to *fight* for LGBTQ rights and inclusion. It would simply be on principle. 

Neither Blue nor Orange would value and fight for the inclusion of a marginalized out-group. A good example is Jordan Peterson. He may 'talk' about LGBTQ personal rights in principal, yet he resists the actual inclusion actions to manifest that as reality. They would see the actuality of inclusion and equality as encroaching upon their own personal freedoms. 

Correct. And of course it's a progression from being uncomfortable /morally opposed towards LGBTQ people, then a transition to being passively accepting of LGBTQ people, and if they continue developing that will transition in to actively fighting for LGBTQ rights and inclusion.

Also from a developmental level, most Orange folks still have a limited understanding of what discrimination and exclusion looks like, and are only cognizant of the most direct and obvious forms of it.

Edited October 7, 2020 by DocWatts
Clarity

[Carl-Richard]

On 7.10.2020 at 6:50 PM, Forestluv said:

It could be a nuanced mixture and expression of stages. Not every phenomena is cleanly categorized into a stage. At Tier2 it's ok to have categorical ambiguity and uncertainty. That's part of the curiosity, creativity and exploration. 

I think there is some interesting Green in there, yet it doesn't seem like a clean, traditional pure Green to me. Perhaps because the environment is red/blue centered. 

That picture makes me think about how it's technically possible to fight excessive Blue (fascism, anti-LGBTQ) from below, namely from Red. I mean, did the ancient romans have anything against homosexuality? Though it has to be said that organizing under a shared identity and fighting for group rights is afterall a collectivist endevour, and the question then becomes: is it possible from purple/red?  Maybe the preconception of LGBTQ rights belonging to or being centered around Green is an eurocentric one haha.

EDIT: Certainly, the concept of "individual rights" is a post-blue/orange concept... what was I thinking? 

Then to modify that question again: is it possible to organize a coordinated fight against oppressive Blue forces from purple/red based on group identity without expecting/knowing about group rights? Maybe group identity is a foreign concept aswell, because it assumes the ability to show concern for other people than your own immediate tribe (an "extended tribe"), and purple/red may only recognize their own immediate tribe as being important.

Edited October 8, 2020 by Carl-Richard

[Scholar]

On 7.10.2020 at 7:03 PM, Forestluv said:

Orange Libertarians may support LGBTQ from a personal-rights, small government ideological position, yet they are not going to *fight* for LGBTQ rights and inclusion. It would simply be on principle. 

Neither Blue nor Orange would value and fight for the inclusion of a marginalized out-group. A good example is Jordan Peterson. He may 'talk' about LGBTQ personal rights in principal, yet he resists the actual inclusion actions to manifest that as reality. They would see the actuality of inclusion and equality as encroaching upon their own personal freedoms to exclude the out-group. 

This is a good point. If you yourself are Gay, you don't need to be Green to fight for your own rights. Otherwise every homosexual person would be stage green.

There is a huge difference for people wanting to give a disadvantaged out-group rights, like a non-LGBTQ person fighting for LGBTQ rights, and someone who simply fights for their own rights, like a LGBTQ person fighting for LGBTQ rights.

LGBTQ can be an individualistic, stage orange pursuit, especially when talking about a person fighting for their own rights and survival, as is depicted in the image you showed.

 

Also there are contrarian movements that can be lower stage. So I can be for LBGTQ rights just to spite the traditionalist Blue, or to show how I am opposed to them. There can be many things going on that are not due to compassion and empathy towards those who are disadvantaged.

 

 

I observed an interesting dynamic in some african americans who are part of Black Lifes Matter. When you confront them about veganism, they will include veganism not because they care about animals, but simply because they want their own pursuit for individualistic values to be recognized. They for example might stop being vegan because the vegans don't support Black Lives Matter. Here you can clearly see that they aren't interested in helping those who are disadvantaged, in this case the animals, but merely use the label to propogate the ideology that will help them gain their own rights. This is a stage orange pursuit, not a stage green pursuit.

Much like a prisoner might be stage red, and stage green might fight for the prisoners rights. Of course the stage red person will agree with it and has been fighting for those rights all along, however that doesn't make them stage green.

Edited October 8, 2020 by Scholar

[Rilles]

If you are very strong, you also have to be very kind - Pippi Longstocking

[Thewritersunion]

 

[system]

 

[Rilles]

 

[Leo Gura]

1 hour ago, Husseinisdoingfine said:

Fellow hippy dippies! What do we make of this?

Quintessential Green

[Leo Gura]

Here's Mean Green as Ken Wilber refers to it:

 

[Hello from Russia]

12 hours ago, Husseinisdoingfine said:

Fellow hippy dippies! What do we make of this?

Damn, makes me wanna go visit that nudist beach in my area

[Rilles]

https://www.ethicalconsumer.org/

 

If you want to buy ethical products, just Google for example "shoes, ethical consumer" and find the link. Really good website. 

[Happy Lizard]

This is what I understand is being green. Also This is what I think an Orange person would be like once they turn green. 

[Apparition of Jack]

@Leo Gura That doesn't sound very "mean green" to me tbh. I was expecting something much worse. Perhaps little disrespectful, especially to the eyes of a blue conservative, but she had a lot of good arguments to make.

[vizual]

Greta Thunberg. Need we say more? She's like a pure incarnate of Green. There is nothing Orange or Yellow in her, just Green.

 

It reminds me to ask for the Gods to please never let me become a stereotype of any Spiral stage.

[tuckerwphotography]

5 minutes ago, vizual said:

Greta Thunberg. Need we say more? She's like a pure incarnate of Green. There is nothing Orange or Yellow in her, just Green.

It reminds me to ask for the Gods to please never let me become a stereotype of any Spiral stage.

Just watched "I Am Greta" documentary. Very intimate portrait of her journey. Great access by the filmmaker. 

 

[Leo Gura]

33 minutes ago, vizual said:

Greta Thunberg. Need we say more? She's like a pure incarnate of Green. There is nothing Orange or Yellow in her, just Green.

How dare you!

[Preety_India]

 

How about mean orange? 

 

[Rilles]

A little bit of Green anger towards science.  

[Leo Gura]