Spiral Dynamics Stage Green Examples Mega-Thread

[Sevi]

Also, of course:

"Expecting the world to treat you fairly because you are a good person, is a little like expecting the bull not to attack you because you are a vegiterian"

Dennis Wholey

Edited July 4, 2018 by Sevi

[Joseph Maynor]

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/4_Way_Street

Edited July 4, 2018 by Joseph Maynor

[Sevi]

❤

 

 

My ever-changing warm-up song for cha-cha:

 

[Emerald]

I would say that this series is very Yellowish-Green in its execution, but with Green goals. 

[Leo Gura]

Green rant against Blue/Orange:

I like this one because it shows how Blue/Orange demonizes Green, and then Green demonizes Blue/Orange back. So both sides end up vilifying each other without mutual understanding. It's tribal warfare.

 

[Emerald]

37 minutes ago, Leo Gura said:

Green rant against Blue/Orange:

I like this one because it shows how Blue/Orange demonizes Green, and then Green demonizes Blue/Orange back. So both sides end up vilifying each other without mutual understanding.

 

I agree that there's mutual criticism going on here, and tons of demonization going on coming from (Blue/Orange) Paul Ryan and demonization on the part of (Green) Cenk as well.

And I agree that it's important to be nuanced and understand the psychology of perpetrators that purposefully or unconsciously feed into negative social patterns. So, demonization doesn't work well toward that end. It's a very unsystematic way to look at societal issues.

However, I was curious what you think about this. Now, systemic thinkers won't demonize because they will understand things better. But perhaps a systemic thinker might also see the value in moving humanity upward on the spiral. So, in our case, a systemic thinker may see value in moving society from Orange to Green.

Now, in the past, moving from stage to stage hasn't always been a smooth ride. In fact, some transitions between phases in Spiral Dynamics have often been very volatile and bloody. And demonization might have been part of those transitions, even though it is quite low consciousness. So, because the next step in our society's evolution will be from Orange to Green, would you say that demonization might be part of that turbulence that comes from the forward transition and those reacting against progress. 

I can't help but listen to Cenk and think, maybe his perspective is a little un-nuanced. But I also thank goodness that there are people like him who are shining light on the dog-whistlers who use terms like "Cultural Marxism" as a clever euphemism to hide their racism, xenophobia, sexism, homophobia, etc. People fall for that stuff really easily and because there's a lot of group-think on the right that's specifically antagonistic to progress, they're even less likely to realize that they're being tricked. 

So, what do you think? Do you think (counterintuitively) demonization and volatility actually serves a purpose in moving us forward as human beings in Tier 1 of Spiral Dynamics, despite the fact that demonization is a sign of unconsciousness? Or do you think that it serves no purpose or detracts from our movement forward as a species? 

Edited July 5, 2018 by Emerald

[Leo Gura]

18 minutes ago, Emerald said:

Do you think (counterintuitively) demonization and volatility actually serves a purpose in moving us forward as human beings in Tier 1 of Spiral Dynamics, despite the fact that demonization is a sign of unconsciousness? Or do you think that it serves no purpose or detracts from our movement forward as a species?

It's a tricky topic because in the ultimate big picture, EVERYTHING serves its purpose. Cenk's demonizing the right has its purpose. White people lynching black people has its purpose. Nazis killing Jews had its purpose. Racism, war, genocide, slavery, anti-Semitism, rape, murder, theft, corruption, harassment, abuse, tribalism, etc. It ALL serves a purpose. It's all totally inevitable and part of Infinity. This is the bitter pill that no ego wants to swallow because the ego loves to judge and be self-righteous and to create an environment which aids the ego's survival.

So if you're gonna say that demonization is moving us forward. Okay. But also realize, so did Nazi concentration camps.

It will take some deep enlightenment experiences to accept that. It will not make sense to the ego-mind. The ego-mind is too selfish to see it. And the ego-mind will try to use this fact to further its agenda by saying things like, "Well, I robbed that person, but it was totally inevitable, like Leo said. So I didn't do anything wrong."

Of course this is just ego being a sneaky manipulative snake. Which is also inevitable.

Reality cannot be other than exactly how it is. The challenge for ego is to surrender to what is.

By definition, anything that happens within reality, servers the ultimate purpose. There is nothing within reality which is "wrong" or "should be otherwise". You cannot optimize reality beyond what it is. It is already 100% optimal and anything that occurs is part of that opitmality unfolding. It just unfolds in counter-intuitive ways. Most people would not think that murder is optimal, but that's because they are not seeing the biggest picture. They are not thinking infinite moves ahead the way God does. So to them, stuff looks sub-optimal. But that is just ignorance. At higher levels of consciousness that will fall away and there will be total acceptance.

This is the #1 reason why nonduality cannot go mainstream. This truth is too brutal for people to accept.

[Emerald]

Just now, Leo Gura said:

It's a tricky topic because in the ultimate big picture, EVERYTHING serves its purpose. Cenk's demonizing the right has its purpose. White people lynching black people has its purpose. Nazis killing Jews had its purpose. Racism, war, genocide, slavery, anti-Semitism, rape, murder, theft, etc. It ALL serves a purpose. It's all totally inevitable and part of Infinity. This is the bitter pill that no ego wants to swallow because the ego loves to judge and be self-righteous.

So if you're gonna say that demonization is moving us forward. Okay. But also realize, so did Nazi concentration camps.

Yeah. I do understand that. It's often the nastiest dirt, that grows the most beautiful flowers. But I guess I didn't ask it quite right. I was asking more about your opinion on what you think is wisest, if the end goal is to create a society that's more harmonious, integrated, and fair.

Basically, if we want to take off the invisible fetters that keep humanity in a state of unhealth, unconsciousness, and fragmentation, would demonization like Cenk did in that video be wise or unwise toward that end?

I'm always thinking about backfiring mechanisms and how things work counter-intuitively relative to the social and political sphere. And I can never quite decide exactly what's the wisest plan of action for the circumstances.

[carlos flores]

@Leo Gura I actually have thought about this before. In some ways i realize now how bad experiences or atrocities have played a role in helping us move forward as a society and up the spiral dynamics stages. I doubt we would be as conscious as we are now if it wasn't for world war 2 and all of the atrocities that happened. While many people did suffer and die, many positive things came out of it to help prevent something like that from happening again (e.g. the UN). Sometimes I ask myself if the fact that Trump became president will help us become more conscious and avoid another person like him to be elected again. Of course, this is a hit or miss situation. Atrocities can help us move forward or it can kill us right there in the spot (nuclear weapons came close to destroying at certain points in history). Am I right about this or am I missing something?

[Leo Gura]

35 minutes ago, Emerald said:

I was asking more about your opinion on what you think is wisest, if the end goal is to create a society that's more harmonious, integrated, and fair.

I think TYT plays an important role. They have some good ideas and initiatives which are much-needed, like their push to pass a Constitutional amendment to get all money out of politics. That would be a game-changer, and is very much needed, and it's not even a partisan issue. Both left and right wingers should be for getting all money out of politics.

TYT is certainly far superior to right-wing (stage Blue/Orange) propaganda outlets and talk show hosts like Ben Shapiro, Dave Rubin, Alex Jones, Breitbart, Fox News, etc.

But TYT also increases the polarization in our politics. It adds gasoline to fire and it has its blindspots. And it tends to over-simply the right wing without really understanding it. Which ends up backfiring.

A stage Yellow approach would be wiser, I think. We need a politics which isn't Democrat or Republican, but Spirocrat But society hasn't evolved that far yet.

Of course in the long run society will become more harmonious, integrated, and fair. As it has been for the last 2000 years. But not without some ego backlash and bitter battles. Tyranny never gives up without a good fight.

Infinity necessitates war.

One of the most profound things you can contemplate when you're tripping on LSD is: Why does war exist? What is the existential basis for all conflict? Be prepared to have your mind blow.

[Leo Gura]

18 minutes ago, carlos flores said:

Sometimes I ask myself if the fact that Trump became president will help us become more conscious and avoid another person like him to be elected again.

Yes, in the end, Trump will be a good thing for mankind. We need Trump to learn the lessons of electing narcissistic morons.

Of course this lesson will come with some great costs. As all lessons do.

Trump's depravity is shedding light on many weakness in our institutions which need shoring up. We are lucky Trump is too incompetent to be an effective dictator. In the future, we might not be so lucky.

[Emerald]

2 minutes ago, Leo Gura said:

I think TYT plays an important role. They have some good ideas and initiatives which are much-needed, like their push to pass a Constitutional amendment to get all money out of politics. That would be a game-changer, and is very much needed, and it's not even a partisan issue. Both left and right wingers should be for getting all money out of politics.

But TYT so increases the polarization in our politics. It adds gasoline to fire and it has its blindspots.

A stage Yellow approach would be wiser, I think.

Of course in the long run society will become more harmonious, integrated, and fair. As it has been for the last 2000 years. But not without some ego backlash.

I totally agree with you about getting big business interests out of politics. That one change will make so much of a difference.

Do you ever watch Secular Talk? The host was/is part of TYT network, and I really enjoy watching his news show. He's also a huge supporter of progressive politicians who run Bernie Sanders-esque grassroots campaigns.

And I think that change will come quite quickly and will be totally paradigm shattering. I'm sure establishment politicians are genuinely having trouble sleeping at night at this point. 

But I'm still unsure whether Green thinkers are better at shifting society toward Green, or if Yellow thinkers are better at shifting society toward the next step whatever it may be. I guess time will tell.

[Leo Gura]

@Emerald My guess is, we will have to have some Green leaders first before we are ready for Yellow leaders.

Bernie Sanders seems like a healthy Green leader. There is a high likihood of a Green leader winning in the next election cycle as mainstream America sees the full ugliness of Trump's version of Orange America. It's going to turn a lot of moderate, mainstream people off. Trump is less consciousness than the average decent American.

The entire culture needs to shift Greener. Which is why we have this on-going culture war. Blue/Orange does not want to shift Green. Hence it's so actively demonizing Green and fighting against it tooth and nail. Hence the rise of someone like JP, who's riding this wave.

But Green is coming regardless. It cannot be stopped. #MeToo and weed legalization is sweeping the nation, and more of that will come. America still has yet to awaken to Green's opening of the heart.

To me, it's not a question of IF, it's question of HOW LONG?

It's gonna be interesting to watch it all unfold.

[Emerald]

14 minutes ago, Leo Gura said:

Infinity necessitates war.

One of the most profound things you can contemplate when you're tripping on LSD is: Why does war exist? What is the existential basis for all conflict? Be prepared to have your mind blow.

I would suppose it works similar to a chemical reaction of sorts. It destroys to make room for things that are new, like a control burn.

War will always exist. Destruction is part of creation. We will never achieve permanent world peace. War is like bacteria, it's always going to be around and some of it is necessary to make systems work right. Just like the gut needs the right bacteria to be able to properly process food. 

But most of the time, bacteria is just nasty and comes as an outgrowth of an environment where bacteria can multiply easily. The bacteria only serves its own purpose. So, I think war is similar to this in so many ways too. Most war just exists because the conditions of the world are conducive to lots and lots of it. So, at present most wars simply act as the bacteria that grows in so many wounds. 

So, I have high hopes that in the future the human system won't be conducive to so much conflict and war. And when it does happen, it won't be for arbitrary reasons. 

[Emerald]

31 minutes ago, Leo Gura said:

@Emerald My guess is, we will have to have some Green leaders first before we are ready for Yellow leaders.

Bernie Sanders seems like a healthy Green leader. There is a high likihood of a Green leader winning in the next election cycle as mainstream America sees the full ugliness of Trump's version of Orange America. It's going to turn a lot of moderate, mainstream people off. Trump is less consciousness than the average decent American.

The entire culture needs to shift Greener. Which is why we have this on-going culture war. Blue/Orange does not want to shift Green. Hence it's so actively demonizing Green and fighting against it tooth and nail.

But Green is coming regardless. It cannot be stopped. #MeToo and weed legalization is sweeping the nation, and more of that will come. America still has yet to awaken to Green's opening of the heart.

I hear ya brother!  I totally agree. I think the silver lining to Trump winning the election is that all the previously unconscious negative things that lurked beneath the surface of collective consciousness, got a free pass to come out. And many on the right are feeling confident that the world is on the side of "reason" and "freedom" and "telling it like it is."

But I think the average person, who is quiet in this political climate will skew more Green as a result. I've been relieved to notice that people who were very ambivalent or resistant to progressive movements in the past, are now seeing why it's so important for us to move forward. They've realized that there are problems that they didn't know were there before. And I was certainly a surprised at the way society reacted to this.

That said, almost everyone from my hometown (a small redneck town in Florida) are huge Trump supporters... including my mom who was previously into a lot of Green initiatives. And I was so disheartened when he won the election. I felt sick the whole week. I didn't know that my mom even supported him, and I never would have seen it coming. She'd never mentioned either.

So, the polarization is really uncomfortable. And people are either getting cemented further back into the old paradigm or growing through all the political unrest. 

Edited July 5, 2018 by Emerald

[Leo Gura]

13 minutes ago, Emerald said:

That said, almost everyone from my hometown (a small redneck town in Florida) are huge Trump supporters... including my mom who was previously into a lot of Green initiatives. And I was so disheartened when he won the election. I felt sick the whole week. I didn't know that my mom even supported him, and I never would have seen it coming. She'd never mentioned either.

Then she came to visit for Thanksgiving a few weeks later, and I was excited to vent to her about it. But all I heard about all weekend was about how amazing Trump is and how "He's so rich that no one can buy him." and "He tells it like it is." And just thinking that his idea of a Muslim ban and the wall are awesome. And how closed minded and hyperbolic I was being by saying that his idea of police profiling Muslims and making them wear IDs was similar to what the Nazis did. Then, when she came for Christmas it got even worse.

Hehehe... yeah. Blue/Orange really likes Trump. He knows just how to market to their fears and hopes.

Meanwhile Green is horrified by the backwardness of it all.

Much of American society is still Bluish. If you live in a Green part of the country like LA or NY, this is easy to forget. It's telling that NYers hate Trump, lol. They know his con-game well.

[Emerald]

2 minutes ago, Leo Gura said:

Hehehe... yeah. Blue/Orange really likes Trump. He knows just how to market to their fears and hopes.

He's definitely really good at selling bullshit to people. And I'm frankly surprised at some of the otherwise intelligent people he was able to dupe. 

[Revolutionary Think]

@Leo Gura I would be hesitant in praising the Young Turks too much. In the whole Israel vs. Palestine thing they appear to be amazingly bias. Their blind spots are pretty big and I'd be aware of that. 

   

[Leo Gura]

Example of Green confronting Orange:

 

[Leo Gura]